Dancing Around the Truth

[00:00] Okay, so we are now at the stage of the game where we do an under Google.
[00:17] Oh, we do an under Google rules.
[00:19] That was the play of super excited.
[00:21] Um, told us we had to.
[00:22] So we said, we signed up for it.
[00:29] In the end, it's going to be better and more true than Google can give you.
[00:35] Coalson, do you have a.
[00:37] Yeah.
[00:37] Item?
[00:38] Yeah.
[00:38] I got a million of them.
[00:42] How was I not ready for this?
[00:47] It happens every week.
[00:48] I wasn't eating, but usually you talk about it and it happened and I totally forget.
[00:53] What about, uh, just desserts?
[00:57] So like if you're, I guess my understanding of it is if, um, something
[01:05] happens to you, uh, because of your own doing, and it's usually a negative thing.
[01:13] You've, you've earned your just desserts or you've had your.
[01:18] It's your comeuppance.
[01:20] Yeah.
[01:21] It's like your karmic, uh, uh, yeah, do, I guess.
[01:27] Yeah.
[01:28] Yeah.
[01:29] And, and I'm wondering where this phrase comes from and how it makes sense at all
[01:33] because desserts are kind of a good thing, but we see this as kind of negative.
[01:39] And, um, you know, it's the, I don't know.
[01:43] I don't know.
[01:44] I'm just throwing this out there.
[01:46] Do you guys have any thoughts?
[01:48] Well, right.
[01:48] And, and in this context, it's just, just is in the sense of justice, right?
[01:54] Um, you're getting your.
[01:55] Yeah, it's not, yeah, I don't see it.
[01:58] It's not like, I just want dessert.
[02:01] I'm just having desserts.
[02:02] Right.
[02:03] Yeah.
[02:04] You're, uh, the justice desserts.
[02:07] I mean, that, that was a, it was a bad Marvel movie, I think.
[02:13] Is this, is this at all related to revenge as a dish, best served cold?
[02:21] Well, you know, we, we a long time ago did humble pie, which is also
[02:25] similar in its, in its intention.
[02:27] Um, but we learned from that one that, um, it had nothing to do with, um,
[02:33] being humble.
[02:34] It was a, uh, it was fridge for deer innards.
[02:38] And it was, uh, basically a misunderstanding of nomble is humble.
[02:44] Um, so it turned into eating a humble pie or just desserts.
[02:51] It's the same idea.
[02:51] Or, yeah.
[02:53] Uh, yeah.
[02:54] I'm going to say worst meal ever is humble pie followed by justice.
[02:57] Yeah.
[02:58] Yeah.
[02:59] That's a tough, that's a tough night.
[03:02] Oh, I feel like you got a tummy ache with an appetizer of Crow.
[03:06] Oh yeah.
[03:06] Oh yeah.
[03:08] So much food karma.
[03:11] So we need to add eating Crow into this one.
[03:13] Cause that's, I don't know.
[03:17] It's just, uh, we might, we might have a hard time with just desserts.
[03:21] I don't, uh, know where to go with this.
[03:25] Well, I'm going to start, I'm going to start at the end and say Shakespeare.
[03:30] Okay.
[03:31] Just cause I feel like, you know, feels Shakespearean.
[03:34] And it kind of feels like, yeah.
[03:36] So the dessert comes at the end of the meal and it's kind of like at the end of
[03:41] the day, at the end of all of the, uh, chicane re and whatnot, you are served.
[03:49] What you deserve is kind of poetic.
[03:53] No, I agree with that.
[03:54] I agree with that.
[03:55] That's what comes at the end of everything.
[03:56] But desserts, I think, uh, is there a world in which desserts aren't awesome?
[04:02] Like why is that a negative in Shakespeare's world where you cut up
[04:06] children and put them in pies and serve them to their parents?
[04:10] Sure.
[04:12] Wow, man.
[04:13] But that's like a meat pie.
[04:14] That's not really absurd.
[04:15] I guess it's a savory pie.
[04:19] It's got a real grim, real fast.
[04:21] I mean, Shakespeare's got some grim stuff, dude.
[04:23] I understand.
[04:24] But like, it's so much child death.
[04:32] Um, you got other ideas you might've been pondering this.
[04:35] Uh, more than us.
[04:37] Cool.
[04:37] So do you, do you have a timeframe that you've been thinking this comes about?
[04:40] Well, so, you know, um, I understand that desserts kind of always finish a fancy
[04:49] meal because like, look, poor people don't have like courses, right?
[04:53] You know, you can have a sweet, you know, but you, that's not a dessert.
[04:58] That's not an after dinner thing.
[05:00] Right.
[05:00] So like, if you've got something that was sugary or sweet as a, as a poor person,
[05:03] you wouldn't call it dessert.
[05:04] It would be like a little, you know, something like that.
[05:06] So you sort of have to think about the opulence of maybe royalty and whatnot.
[05:11] But I was thinking about it as something that you would, um, maybe like a sugar
[05:16] cream pie, as I always thought about the just dessert, like, you know, like,
[05:20] like a kind of, uh, yeah, well, no, I was thinking like a, kind of a, a
[05:24] fifties wacky, you get hit in the face with a pie sort of thing.
[05:30] Oh, that's interesting.
[05:32] And so that's always in my, my connection, even though I'm with Harper,
[05:36] that this is probably Shakespeare and it comes out of, you know, courses
[05:41] and many meals and stuff, and then you have your dessert at the end.
[05:45] I always thought of it as a silly pie that you hit in your face.
[05:50] So, I mean, those are sugar cream pies that people get hit with.
[05:54] Yeah, they get the sugar cream.
[05:56] I feel like it's just whipped cream in a pan.
[05:59] Right.
[06:00] Yeah, that's what I always thought.
[06:01] Well, of course, I mean, yes, I mean, that, what are they actually
[06:03] getting hit in the face with?
[06:05] It's whipped cream, but I think the bit is a sugar cream pie.
[06:09] Or maybe even shaving cream.
[06:12] Yeah.
[06:12] I don't know.
[06:14] Yeah.
[06:14] When, uh, on last, whatever was cheaper at this store.
[06:17] Yeah, exactly.
[06:18] On people's last shifts at work, we used to put, uh, whipped cream
[06:23] in, in, um, coffee filters and throw it at them.
[06:29] Knowing that you have to clean it up because they don't work
[06:32] Yeah, that's what, that's what we did.
[06:34] Yeah.
[06:38] That was your just dessert, I suppose.
[06:41] Right.
[06:42] Exactly.
[06:43] So I always kind of attributed it to more modern, um, you know, but
[06:49] there's no reason for that.
[06:50] I'm assuming it's Shakespeare's probably right.
[06:53] If it's not Shakespeare, it's some sort of poetic, uh, person.
[06:59] Yeah, it is a, it is a, certainly a poetic formulation.
[07:03] Right.
[07:04] Right.
[07:05] Uh, okay.
[07:06] Uh, let's go with, um, who do we not go with very often that, that
[07:11] probably is as not Chaucer.
[07:14] Um, it's like, uh, I mean, Chaucer is too old English.
[07:20] Yeah.
[07:20] Yeah.
[07:22] On some level, this could have been brought to you from the
[07:24] Greeks, right?
[07:26] And just passed out through the ages.
[07:28] True.
[07:28] True.
[07:30] Oh, what about like, uh, oh, oh, oh, oh, okay.
[07:33] What about, uh, like hemlock, right?
[07:37] Or something like that.
[07:38] What if we're like poisoning people in their dessert and
[07:42] that's their just dessert.
[07:43] Hey, that's more Shakespeare anyway.
[07:45] It doesn't matter.
[07:46] I don't know why I got that out of Roman, but the Greeks
[07:49] were into him locked in.
[07:51] Yeah.
[07:52] Uh, Jason, you got any idea?
[07:54] Is it a play on words or something?
[07:56] No, I don't.
[07:57] I mean, no, I mean, it's basically kind of a play on
[08:02] words, right?
[08:03] Because it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a
[08:06] bitter thing, right?
[08:07] And dessert is generally associated with sweet things.
[08:10] That's what we associate dessert with.
[08:12] Was there a time when it was more customary to have
[08:15] something savory for dessert that I don't know.
[08:18] Yeah.
[08:18] I, you know, it does, you're right.
[08:20] It does suggest like it's fitting into it.
[08:24] I am bit pentameter or something like that.
[08:26] It's like, it's, um, all right.
[08:29] Well, let's go with, uh, uh, a poet from the, uh, 16th
[08:36] century.
[08:38] Chad GPT.
[08:39] What can you tell me?
[08:42] The phrase just desserts first appeared in English
[08:45] in the 16th century and it was originally used to
[08:47] refer to both punishments and rewards.
[08:50] Uh, let's see.
[08:51] So the phrase just desserts is actually playing
[08:53] words and again, this is literally according to
[08:55] Chad GPT, let's find out how good it is.
[08:58] It's a plan of words of just deserts, which refers
[09:01] to the punishment or reward that someone deserves
[09:02] based upon their action.
[09:03] Deserts in this context is dry for the old French
[09:05] word desert fear, which means to deserve desserts
[09:10] and deserts are homophones, which they're
[09:13] really not.
[09:14] Uh, so I'm seeing that it came from, uh, a
[09:17] translation of Erasmuses, the first tome or
[09:23] volume of the paraphrase of Erasmus upon the New
[09:28] Testament by Nicholas Udall.
[09:31] It proceedeth more of their unwee of their
[09:35] unquietness of mind than of any fout or just
[09:42] desert in Erasmus.
[09:44] Dude, unwee is like a weird word to be using
[09:47] in a biblical context.
[09:48] Right.
[09:50] I mean, it's spelled E N U I E.
[09:54] Okay.
[09:55] They must be related, but not.
[09:57] Yeah.
[09:58] Miriam Webster says just deserts uses this
[10:01] relatively uncommon noun form of desert.
[10:05] So according to Miriam Webster, there's one
[10:07] S in this bad boy.
[10:09] Yeah.
[10:09] That's what I was just reading too.
[10:10] That's weird.
[10:11] Whoa.
[10:12] Okay.
[10:16] Time we got to adopting.
[10:17] So let's see the punishment since it's already
[10:19] been used for 700 years.
[10:20] By the time we got around to adopting the
[10:22] after dinner work for dessert around 1600.
[10:25] In fact, the use of just desserts predates
[10:28] that of dessert as it came into use in the
[10:31] middle of the 16th century.
[10:35] Okay.
[10:35] Dictionary.com.
[10:39] Yeah.
[10:39] The expression is just desserts with one S
[10:42] recorded in the early 1500s.
[10:45] So we just, we just say it wrong.
[10:47] It's what's happening.
[10:48] Yeah.
[10:53] What does that even mean?
[10:55] I'm seeing here that the French for
[10:57] de severe, uh, with only one S means serve
[11:01] well, and then has been used in English, uh,
[11:22] with one S, uh, since the 13th century,
[11:26] meaning things deserved.
[11:30] So just desert now, nowadays is used more or
[11:34] less exclusively in this phrase.
[11:36] It doesn't sound like just desserts, at least
[11:39] according to the internet is a negative thing.
[11:43] Well, it was originally, it could mean good
[11:45] or bad, it could mean reward or punishment,
[11:48] but it's just got to be just the time.
[11:50] It's a justified result.
[11:53] And I think, you know, when I was
[11:55] reading earlier, it seemed like in the
[11:56] 18th or 19th century, it's sort of got
[12:00] pushed more towards the, uh, punishment camp.
[12:06] Well, I'm going to start telling people
[12:08] that they're, they're getting there.
[12:09] Just deserts.
[12:12] Just, yeah, it seems like that's the.
[12:19] Interesting.
[12:22] So I don't know.
[12:23] Did we, did we learn, but I still don't get it.
[12:26] Uh, so the just desserts, I think goes to
[12:28] the Nicholas Udall translation, uh, from
[12:33] Erasmus and what year was this?
[12:36] And the, and the word desert, like a
[12:38] desert beer is borrowed from the French
[12:42] into the English and means you get
[12:46] what you deserve kind of thing.
[12:49] So Erasmus was like 15 early 1500s.
[12:55] Yeah.
[12:56] And the translation was not long after.
[12:58] Okay, gotcha.
[12:59] Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
[13:00] So early 1500s.
[13:01] So we're off by a century.
[13:03] We were, I feel like we were pretty close.
[13:06] In the grand scheme of things, not too terrible.
[13:09] All right.
[13:10] This is the last thing I got here.
[13:12] It's the, we, um, originated some Latin
[13:18] surveyor with the prefix D meaning zealously.
[13:25] Um, so the, the late 1200 is meeting
[13:29] of an action or quality deserving
[13:31] appropriate recompense.
[13:35] So to deserve zealously, um, from
[13:39] the Latin to the French.
[13:40] Yeah.
[13:41] Um, and whether reward or prong
[13:44] punishment, um, yeah.
[13:48] And the modern ushers tends to form to
[13:52] get one's deserts, the spelled with one S.
[13:55] Um, yeah.
[13:57] Okay.
[13:57] So from Latin to French, so it has
[14:01] nothing to do with sugar, cream pie.
[14:04] Just we've been mispronouncing and
[14:06] it's basically to serve, uh, to serve
[14:08] zealously.
[14:09] So either good or bad.
[14:11] And we've been misthinking it or
[14:14] misspelling it.
[14:16] And I feel like we might've been, we
[14:17] might be owned one against chat GPT too.
[14:22] The chat GPT and nail it.
[14:24] It was cool.
[14:24] It was, it was pretty close.
[14:27] But we were only a hundred years off.
[14:29] I feel like it didn't give a year at all.
[14:30] So suck it.
[14:31] And also we mentioned the nomblay and it
[14:34] was still a French derivation in this one too.
[14:36] So come on.
[14:37] I feel like we were all over this.
[14:39] We were dancing around it.
[14:40] We were dancing around it.
[14:41] And you know what?
[14:42] What do you come to, uh, you know, the
[14:44] under Googles for, if not just dancing
[14:46] around the truth.
[14:53] Tagline.
[14:57] That doesn't, that doesn't fit
[14:58] comfortable on a koozie.
[15:00] Yeah.
[15:01] I don't know.
[15:02] Dancing around the truth.
[15:03] We could do that.
[15:04] It's got to go all the way around anyway.
[15:05] That's true.
[15:06] Yeah.
[15:07] That's a good point.
[15:10] All right.
[15:10] Well, uh, we'll, we'll leave you
[15:13] with that for now.
[15:14] Uh, we want to thank you for listening.
[15:17] Uh, by the way, if you want to subscribe
[15:19] to just the under Googles and hear us
[15:20] dance around the truth, you can do
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[15:24] If you want to do that, just search
[15:27] for under Google in your, uh, Google.
[15:31] Yeah.
[15:32] And I, and I want to say, you know,
[15:33] like right now it's not coming out weekly.
[15:36] Um, but some of my favorite shows,
[15:38] um, that I subscribe to don't.
[15:41] And when, when I'm really needing
[15:43] that show and I'm missing it, I just
[15:45] go back to the beginning.
[15:47] We've got, uh, you know, tens of
[15:52] hundreds of these things.
[15:54] So start, start from the one.
[15:57] What are we, what are we on episode
[15:58] like 75?
[16:00] We're good.
[16:00] You got plenty of stuff to listen to.
[16:02] We're almost at 200, I think.
[16:04] Oh, 175.
[16:05] We have tens of tens, tens of
[16:07] tens, tens of tens.
[16:09] Come on.
[16:09] Score is even start, start from the
[16:12] beginning.
[16:12] And then by the time you catch up,
[16:14] you'll have some new ones and probably
[16:16] a forgotten episode one to go back again.
[16:20] And like myself, I remember the wrong
[16:22] answer more often than I remember the
[16:23] right one.
[16:24] So you got to listen real close to these.
[16:27] I, I remember the argument and then, uh,
[16:32] don't remember where it settles.
[16:34] Uh, okay.
[16:35] Anyway.
[16:35] So if you have an under Google, you
[16:37] want to send us, you can do that, uh, on
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[17:10] Right.
[17:11] For the architect, Donnie Walsh and
[17:15] our once and always Hall of Fame
[17:17] coach, Bobby Seclenning.
[17:21] Turn out the lights.
[17:22] The party's over.