So Much Goat Transfer

[00:00] Well, so we
[00:03] He's getting ready he's gonna get all yeah, you're getting hasty I'm getting hasty
[00:14] So we're gonna do an under Google are you are you kicking off the show? No?
[00:22] That's my job
[00:27] Okay
[00:30] I
[00:40] Just concern because it's an audio medium you said he's gonna fluff you and then he started coughing
[00:51] Okay, I'm not gonna say let's start over cuz this is gold okay, would you would you want to set us up?
[01:03] This guy we do under Google's that was the play of super excited told us we had to
[01:26] We signed up for it in the end it's gonna be better and more true than Google can give you
[01:34] But we're here in person and I'm excited that we get to do some under Google bulls together. I think that we're gonna
[01:42] We're in the same room. We're gonna eat the mind meld and
[01:45] We're gonna get to the the answer quicker and more accurately than we ever have before
[01:51] Coalson a question you got for us today. Well, this is
[01:57] Comes to me for two reasons one your your brother got married today. Mm-hmm. Also
[02:07] Also my dear friend
[02:09] My dear friends Rick and Janet Powell had their son Jordan got married last week and
[02:17] They sent in a question for the under Google's. Hmm. They want to know the history behind
[02:26] Needing a witness to get married. They're aware that that's not true in every state
[02:32] that they're
[02:34] curious about the history of witnesses at
[02:39] A wedding what's the purpose of it? Yeah, do you think it just has to do with you can't testify against your spouse after you've committed a crime
[02:52] So someone else could testify yeah, just like everybody the rest was like, oh, yeah we married dude
[03:02] Yeah, sure it's just it's a he said she said about marriage
[03:10] I mean my guess is it stems from
[03:15] Transferring the power of
[03:19] Match money from the church to the state, right? So like
[03:24] You used to have to have an ordained
[03:28] priest or whatever
[03:29] Rabbi or
[03:31] Imam to marry you I'm guessing right? Well, and you should do on some level
[03:37] Well, but they have to be ordained by the state, right? So that's the witness that has to see the
[03:43] Sign the contract, right? Well, right like I can go like I have married a couple people and I have a
[03:49] online
[03:52] Ordained right thing but that's that is still a religious figure over the state
[04:00] You know, they don't have to go sign a thing with the state, right?
[04:06] You're just doing it. Well, then why do I have to get a stupid thing online?
[04:12] Couldn't I be a guy I
[04:15] Think legally I've been required to put those on the contract. Okay. I don't remember actually so on
[04:23] Married and I have to be if an efficient that is
[04:27] Has some sort of religious standing
[04:30] Right. Well, but for that I think originally it had to be a religious standing
[04:34] But yeah, I think from the state it just has to be somebody that's like
[04:40] Verified you have a bleed checkmark
[04:45] Patriot books, but you could go to the justice of peace
[04:50] But somebody at the justice of peace has to sign the marriage contract
[04:54] No, I understand that but what I'm saying is if I am just signed up online. I
[04:59] Am now equivalent of just peace, right? So like correct you can't
[05:04] Harper couldn't marry me right now. He has to have some sort of standing
[05:09] Well, not in the state of Indiana cuz they don't allow gay marriage
[05:20] They bring out they they disapprove it they're not real happy
[05:29] Don't worry
[05:34] No, that's a good question, I mean obviously different states have different laws but you
[05:39] So for instance in the district of Columbia, I know you can a couple can marry themselves. You don't need a
[05:46] Officiant right. So I know state-by-state is different. So I think the question was
[05:52] Why is there a tradition of witnesses and what's the point of that?
[05:57] Outside of what Harper said, maybe he's right. Maybe that's the whole thing right there
[06:01] But that's also what Jason is saying, which is that the state does have an interest in
[06:07] You know marriage comes with a bunch of benefits, right? The state incentivizes marriage. Wait, what are the benefits mostly tax breaks?
[06:16] Okay, right financial. Yeah, okay, mostly financial insurance
[06:19] But the state incentivizes that because they they incentivize population growth because that's a cop
[06:24] Also, I want a quick shout out to my wife. Love you, baby
[06:31] Good save
[06:37] I think those are probably you know, I think
[06:40] Jason is probably right. There's at least some aspect of that, but I can't remember so when I got married
[06:46] I think the only so my wife and I signed the contract and I think our officiant signed the contract are there additional
[06:54] People that show you it. So I have I have married someone in Arizona and in Colorado and both times
[07:01] I signed is it efficient? We had to have both there were additional witnesses. Yes, you had to have two witnesses on both of those
[07:10] Yeah, you know the certificate that I signed yeah had to have witnesses, okay, so theory
[07:18] Those witnesses are required
[07:20] Because it's not being done in front of a justice piece. My suspicion is that if you went to the state house
[07:26] The judge would just yeah the two people. Yeah would be fine. Yeah
[07:31] Look with the judge is right, right, but once you involve this. Yeah
[07:36] Once you involve what once the state is not involved then they want with witnesses to the act and an officiant for what purpose? I
[07:44] mean again, there are
[07:47] Positive
[07:48] Legal I see so you can't just say hey
[07:51] I'm married and I want a tax break you need to have people prove that you did it well and you know sort of
[07:56] The release give a paper trail such that yeah, right somebody from the IRS could come and say like
[08:03] All right. I need proof of this and perhaps how it actually came to be was maybe even the inverse
[08:08] Maybe someone's like yeah, I married this guy. He was like, I'm drunk. I don't remember right. I got divorce
[08:12] You know, he was like I want all your money lady and she was like no, no, no, we never got married. We never got married
[08:19] Now we have to witnesses. Yeah, so how how long does that go back though? Like are we talking about medieval times?
[08:26] That's a good question. Are we talking about when do we have witnesses because like we got old niggas
[08:31] Well, you know when you think of course, but like you think I like that the stereotypical
[08:38] Elvis wedding in Vegas, right you're supposed to have a
[08:41] Witness on your side or something like that. Like they're always dragging somebody
[08:45] I was gonna ask I thought that was the whole like bit about you have to bring in some drunk guy off the street to
[08:50] Be a witness or something. Sure. Yeah, so, you know
[08:54] does this does this have a history beyond a
[08:59] Vegas marriage, you know a drive-thru
[09:04] Wedding
[09:06] My guess is yes. Yeah, I feel like this is old
[09:10] Yeah, I think once things start getting once you started separating church from state and
[09:17] had and like sort of
[09:22] Decentralized the marrying process then the state wanted witnesses to
[09:31] Verify things so like yeah, I don't know what is this English Reformation? Yeah
[09:41] I mean potentially I mean, you know, you could make an argument for like like Keynesian economics or something
[09:49] Until there's actually benefit attached to the marriage
[09:54] You know unit because well, but I feel like there's even even with that though. There would be you know, like property transfer
[10:00] Yeah, you know like our reason dowries and yeah, you know goats and
[10:12] But back then
[10:15] That was a lot of like, you know
[10:18] Social pressure stuff, right? Like if you go back on that sort of agreement
[10:24] Ostracism is the output right? So the state wouldn't necessarily need to be involved in that scenario, right?
[10:30] Because the church would be driving that's pretty state. Yeah
[10:34] So until you actually have an arrangement where the state wants to promote growth
[10:40] You may not have need for this
[10:44] So I'm gonna go
[10:46] Like early 1900s America, okay. I'm gonna go with
[10:52] Henry the eighth right like I'm gonna go with divorce
[10:54] I think the moment you create divorce is a financial issue you have to people the lawyers get involved
[11:01] Yeah, no those witnesses said any of those poor girls has
[11:05] I'm gonna go. Yeah, I'm gonna split the difference ago early
[11:08] 19th century
[11:11] Yeah
[11:17] I'm thinking I'm feeling some some ancient Greeks on this
[11:25] Finding the elder. Yeah one of the elder maybe the younger I need a single
[11:31] Yeah, finally the eternally single
[11:40] Bridal party history
[11:43] Understanding why they are needed in ancient Roman times. There is a law that required witnesses to be present at the wedding
[11:49] 10 witnesses five five
[11:54] Five
[11:56] Gotta be real popular to get married back. Yeah, right
[12:06] People also ask did people watch the consummation Oh God
[12:10] That was a thing at one point at least in some places, right? That's not just Game of Thrones. No. Yeah, I think that's
[12:20] In some places that was
[12:25] But witnesses are not required right Alabama. I mean what's required by Alabama law
[12:32] A lot of things that are not acceptable elsewhere
[12:37] So lab science says marriages in the West were originally contracts between the families of the two partners
[12:43] What the Catholic Catholic Church and the state staying out of it in 1215 the Catholic Church decreed that partners had to publicly post
[12:52] bands with two ends
[12:55] Our notices of an impending marriage in a local parish to cut down the frequency of invalid marriages
[13:03] The church eliminated that requirements
[13:06] Back in the 1980s
[13:08] What?
[13:09] Still until the 1500 accepted a couple's word
[13:13] That they had exchanged marriage vows with no witness or corroborating evidence
[13:18] In the last several hundred years the state has played a greater role in marriage for inches, Massachusetts
[13:24] began requiring marriage licenses in
[13:27] 1639
[13:28] And by the 19th century marriage licenses were common in the United States
[13:35] Mental floss has great article
[13:38] Inside all 21 surprising historical duties of the wedding party
[13:44] There was once a a lot of throw shoe throwing in the old days in
[13:49] Anglo-saxon times the groom symbolically struck the bride with a shoe to establish his authority
[13:57] Brides would throw shoes at the bridesmaids instead of the bouquet to see who would marry next
[14:04] Whoever caught it would throw her shoe at the men and the first guy hit would be the one to wed
[14:13] Ancient Roman law required ten witnesses to be present at the wedding which is considered a precursor to bridal party tradition
[14:21] this is saying that the original intent of
[14:25] Wedding parties is to have your friends dressed alike
[14:29] Standing up with you at the wedding to confuse evil spirits
[14:34] Weird that might seek to harm the bride and the groom
[14:39] I'm giving a lot of
[14:42] Official documents from like county governments. Yeah, I mean so
[14:47] It's relatively easy to find information about marriage licensing. Yeah difficult to figure out the
[14:57] Right, it definitely goes back to Roman times then yeah
[15:01] Yeah, I mean it just seems like a yeah
[15:05] Something that's been around forever. So maybe it's just been
[15:09] piggybacking on
[15:12] Tradition since then. Yeah, like I've always had witnesses. Of course. We're gonna have witnesses. I mean I do like that like
[15:19] you mentioned about like
[15:22] Some like cutting down on you know fraudulent or
[15:28] Yeah, or like elopements so like
[15:31] elopements wouldn't probably do you want to marry off your daughter to some other family you got to do it the way or even
[15:38] Yeah parents didn't like that either, right
[15:43] But you know you feel like they would be it well if you had doesn't say you you would have difficulty finding
[15:51] Witnesses, but maybe if you had to have ten or something like that you couldn't get ten people who were like
[15:58] Support your elopement, right? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm reading an article that is making an argument that over time
[16:07] You know as you guys are talking about that
[16:10] It's a family matter and then and that if you elope that that's sort of against the family and
[16:17] That the idea is that two families come together and they need to be
[16:22] Approval approving of this thing and eventually the state gets in bald and is the approver of these things
[16:29] that that people just disappearing and marrying is
[16:34] Not what the family or the state wants and so the idea of witnesses
[16:40] to kind of
[16:42] Keep the family happy. Hmm
[16:46] Yeah, and the state is supporting keeping the family. Yeah as a general role mo witnesses like
[16:52] Means when it's chance of wrongdoing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, mo witnesses means more people approve this problem
[17:04] Like you're
[17:06] It's not family that's family friends or friends are approving of this so now the state doesn't have to you know
[17:13] They approve of this as well sort of idea. Yeah
[17:16] Which which makes sense to me?
[17:18] The people eloping are doing some animals like fuck that. Yeah, exactly. We just love it when people marry that 14 year old
[17:25] I don't care whoever's
[17:27] So, okay
[17:29] I
[17:31] Learned some stuff. So the Romans were confusing the spirits gotcha Romans
[17:38] evil spirits and families wanted families wanting to control their children kids and the state
[17:47] The state want to get their greasy fingerprints all over that wedding. Yeah, particularly
[17:54] On that way nailed it nailed it
[18:01] You