Eccentric Gentry Men

[00:00] Last thing we got for you is an undegoogleable.
[00:03] Oh, are we doing undegoogleables?
[00:17] That was the play of. Super excited. I told us we had to, sir.
[00:22] You said we signed up for it. In the end it's going to be better and more true than Google can give you.
[00:30] Coalson, I was really impressed with the two-man undegoogleable last week.
[00:38] I don't know if that's ever been attempted, let alone successfully landed.
[00:42] Well done there. If we double the workforce, can we double the fun?
[00:49] I hope so. Let's see what we can do.
[00:54] This one's been bothering me for a while. Cravat versus an Ascot.
[00:59] It's been keeping you open, I'd say. It has. I don't know the difference.
[01:06] They both seem to be scarves around the neck.
[01:08] Can you guys tell me the difference between a cravat
[01:14] versus an Ascot?
[01:16] Joey just yawned.
[01:21] Joey just yawned.
[01:23] Well, an Ascot also, I know, can be a hat.
[01:27] What?
[01:29] It's a type of hat as well.
[01:33] But I think more famously as the scarf.
[01:38] So is it a scarf hat?
[01:40] No, no, no. It's just another.
[01:42] An unrelated item also called an Ascot?
[01:45] That seems like maybe you're mispronouncing something.
[01:48] I don't.
[01:50] I don't believe so.
[01:53] Are you thinking of an ass hat?
[01:55] Is that what you're thinking of?
[02:03] So do you think that they're the same like material
[02:09] or do you think that you have any idea like difference in like material
[02:13] or is it the way it's folded or tied or do you have any idea?
[02:18] Exactly. This is the question.
[02:20] You've got nothing to go on here.
[02:22] So when you think about an Ascot,
[02:25] maybe it's got a pin in it.
[02:28] Maybe like this super rich gentleman,
[02:31] he's got sort of a little scarf with a pin in it
[02:34] and maybe he can wear a robe.
[02:36] Maybe it's his post-dinner attire.
[02:41] It's his evening cravat.
[02:43] His smoking cravat perhaps.
[02:47] His smoking ass hat.
[02:51] Which I would love to name the show that but I don't think I can.
[02:57] And then the cravat I feel like is similar
[03:01] but maybe more worn during the day.
[03:04] More formal?
[03:06] Yes, perhaps.
[03:10] I have no idea, honestly.
[03:12] But my guess is that one is clasped and one is not.
[03:17] Okay.
[03:18] I was thinking one was folded
[03:22] and one was poofed out or something.
[03:26] Like is a cravat like what the Boy Scouts wear?
[03:31] Where it's like a scarf around the shoulders
[03:34] and then there's like a clasp thing in the front?
[03:36] Yeah, I don't think that's called a cravat.
[03:38] It's called like a Boy Scout scarf.
[03:42] Okay.
[03:45] No, that's not called that but yeah, I don't think it's a cravat.
[03:48] No, I think a cravat is, I think they're different things.
[03:52] I don't think they're both silk bandanas.
[03:55] I think they're, you know,
[03:57] I think they actually come in different things
[04:00] but I don't exactly know what that is.
[04:03] I think they're both silk.
[04:05] Are they both silk?
[04:07] For some reason, I thought cravats were more cottony.
[04:10] Okay.
[04:11] I didn't know that there was a fabric associated with either.
[04:15] I could just be, I'm just making stuff up.
[04:19] And so are they both flat sheets of fabric
[04:25] that are then folded in different ways?
[04:29] Folded in specific ways or whatever
[04:31] or just bunched around the neck?
[04:33] Or is one like a circular piece of fabric?
[04:39] Like a buff?
[04:41] Like a dicky?
[04:42] Like the original buff?
[04:46] Like a...
[04:47] Dicky.
[04:48] Like a bow tie that's, you know?
[04:53] Right.
[04:54] Okay, so one's like a bow tie and one's like a bandana?
[04:57] Maybe, I don't know.
[05:00] I don't know.
[05:01] Yeah, does one have like a latch around the back
[05:04] and the other one is like a full piece of cloth?
[05:07] Maybe that's the difference.
[05:09] I feel like anyone who is gonna wear one of these things
[05:11] is not gonna have a clasp.
[05:13] I feel like they're very into tying things if they're that.
[05:17] Okay.
[05:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[05:19] Yeah, exactly, yeah.
[05:23] Like tying your bow tie basically.
[05:26] And they would be probably worn by, like,
[05:32] the gentry or whatever originally
[05:35] who would have had some dude dressing them.
[05:37] Do it for them.
[05:38] Or whatever, and do it for them.
[05:40] So it would be like very, you know, complicated.
[05:45] Or could be more complicated.
[05:47] Well, okay, and so this goes to another conversation.
[05:51] Not only the difference of them in fashion,
[05:55] but time wise.
[05:56] Do these things come around at the same time?
[05:59] Is one way older than the other?
[06:02] Not that we know the difference between them.
[06:05] It doesn't really help us.
[06:07] I don't know why either of them exist.
[06:09] Right.
[06:10] I mean, do they even, are they practical at all?
[06:16] Are there any sense, like, could they keep you warm?
[06:18] Or is this just for looking rich?
[06:22] No, I think if you were, like,
[06:24] when I'm thinking of the Ascot and the evening wear,
[06:27] like, I think it would keep your neck warm, you know?
[06:32] A cravat, it feels more like a tie to me
[06:34] that you'd wear out to dinner.
[06:36] Again, I'm just making the, it could be the opposite.
[06:39] I don't know.
[06:40] I don't really know the difference.
[06:41] It could be I'm talking about one and the other.
[06:44] I feel like you've got, like, a closet full of cravats.
[06:47] Yeah, like, wait, my guess is that maybe they originated
[06:50] for, like, when fancy pants people
[06:55] did leisurely activities, right?
[06:57] Like a, you know, whatever.
[07:01] I'm picturing a lot of Downton Abbey right now
[07:03] as I'm sort of taking it.
[07:05] But it's like, all right, we're going to go for a fox hunt.
[07:08] And it's like, I got to wear my fox hunting outfit.
[07:11] But I'm not going to be caught out
[07:13] without some sort of tie or whatever.
[07:16] But I can't have, like, a regular, you know,
[07:20] choking tie on.
[07:22] I want something else.
[07:23] So I'm going to invent the Ascot
[07:25] to, like, put around my neck.
[07:28] That may also keep me warm, but it's more so, like,
[07:30] so that I don't look like a, you know,
[07:33] very uncouth while I'm out there, like,
[07:36] a plebeian chasing down foxes or whatever.
[07:39] Right.
[07:40] Because only the, because the wealthy need to show
[07:43] that they can afford that extra piece of fabric
[07:46] around their neck where the poor just go without.
[07:51] Yeah, or I think it's just more utilitarian.
[07:53] Like, some dude, typically, they would have worn a tie.
[07:58] And, you know, some eccentric gentry man was like,
[08:03] oh, I'm not going to wear a tie.
[08:05] I'm going to wear this piece of fabric around my neck.
[08:09] Yeah.
[08:10] After somebody's tie flew off, got caught in a tree,
[08:12] and hung the guy on a fox.
[08:14] Right, exactly.
[08:15] Yes, that is a terrible idea.
[08:17] Exactly.
[08:18] Yeah.
[08:19] Where that came from.
[08:20] Now, so what's the era of the fox hunt?
[08:24] I mean, that goes back to what, probably,
[08:28] late Middle Ages, something like that, I would guess.
[08:31] I don't know.
[08:32] Doing, like, fifteen, sixteen hundreds with the fox hunt?
[08:40] Probably.
[08:41] I mean, I'm sure that, like, no noblemen
[08:45] were probably doing fox hunts and stuff like that.
[08:47] Okay.
[08:48] Like, maybe even earlier.
[08:52] I have no idea.
[08:53] Okay.
[08:54] Certainly by, yeah, certainly by fifteen,
[08:57] sixteen hundred, I would think.
[08:59] All right.
[09:00] And are we thinking that they both came around then,
[09:03] or are we thinking they're completely different things?
[09:09] I don't know.
[09:10] It also seems Victorian era-ish to me.
[09:13] Like, when styles started to become a thing.
[09:18] Okay.
[09:19] Okay.
[09:20] That definitely tracks for sure.
[09:23] So maybe let's give the ascot the fox hunts in, like,
[09:27] fifteen hundreds, and then let's give the cravat the,
[09:31] you know, Victorian England.
[09:34] Or vice versa.
[09:35] Sounds good to me.
[09:36] Or vice versa.
[09:37] Now, also, does it matter what,
[09:40] you're saying we don't care about the fabric.
[09:43] That probably doesn't matter.
[09:45] That's not an issue.
[09:47] They're probably all silk.
[09:48] It's about how they're hemmed.
[09:50] I don't know.
[09:51] I guess I thought cravats were like a heavier gauge of fabric.
[09:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[09:56] Let's go cravat is like a heavier gauge of fabric and that the,
[09:59] the ascot is a silky puffy thing with a pin.
[10:04] That's what I'm going.
[10:05] Was everybody okay with this?
[10:07] And then we're going to get, let's give the cravat the,
[10:11] the ascot will be in Victorian England and the cravat will be the fox hunters.
[10:16] Okay.
[10:20] Typically an ascot tends to be viewed as an informal tie
[10:25] that is worn under a shirt or jacket.
[10:28] The British refer to this as the day cravat.
[10:32] And cravat is basically the French word for tie.
[10:38] This is according to creamandflood.com,
[10:41] which I'm guessing is some sort of fashion.
[10:44] They're ascot specialists.
[10:52] Cravat is a catch-all term for neckwear or a ruch.
[10:57] So that, that, that's helpful to me.
[11:01] A ruch?
[11:02] Don't know.
[11:03] Oh, okay.
[11:04] So this says the cravat is the forerunner of the modern tailored necktie.
[11:10] And it was, let's see,
[11:12] it looks like from the end of the 16th century.
[11:15] According to these guys,
[11:16] it's the difference is where the tie sits around the neck.
[11:19] Is it over the short shirt?
[11:23] It's probably more a formal cravat worn with morning dress.
[11:29] Does it sit under the shirt?
[11:31] It's probably what we call an ascot.
[11:33] Oh, we killed that.
[11:34] And we talked about day and night with the ascot.
[11:37] But what the hell is an ascot?
[11:44] The terms come, and this will be according to the coolest.
[11:48] Yeah, that's what I'm looking at too.
[11:50] The term comes from Croatian mercenaries who operated with France during the 30 years war.
[11:56] They were distinguishing neck gear, which was originally named Croate.
[12:02] The French term for Croatian.
[12:04] Somewhere along the line, the word was bastardized into cravat.
[12:08] The all manner of neck decoration was popular.
[12:12] Prior to the 1600s through some linguistic turn of fate, this became popular.
[12:19] Cravat refers to anything worn around the neck.
[12:23] Yes, all ascots are cravats, but not all cravats are ascots.
[12:30] Wow.
[12:32] Scarves are cravats.
[12:35] Yes.
[12:37] So this came from Croatian mercenaries.
[12:40] And an ascot is closer to a scarf than a necktie,
[12:43] but similar that it's broad and ends in hanging from a knot.
[12:48] Look what I've got here.
[12:53] As with many interesting fashions, the ascot harkens back to horse racing.
[12:58] What?
[13:00] Specifically, the name refers to the royal ascot, which is England's Kentucky Derby,
[13:05] where attendees are expected to dress in mourning formal fashion.
[13:09] The original ascots were bundles of silk knotted twice and held by a pin.
[13:18] That's interesting.
[13:19] There's like a specific race has a specific fashion.
[13:23] And it's weird that the croats were so fashionable going to war.
[13:28] A lot of the pictures I've seen were military uniforms.
[13:35] Yeah.
[13:36] What year are we getting on the cravat then?
[13:39] Did you guys have that?
[13:41] There's an article in the Washington Post called The Twisted History of Neckties.
[13:46] They put their origins in the mid-17th century.
[13:53] The strips of cloth that became known as cravats have been multiplied into amazing variety.
[14:01] French fashion in the 17th century adopted from Croatian mercenaries.
[14:05] It's probably the same thing you guys were saying.
[14:08] Yeah.
[14:10] And it wasn't from the coolest, so maybe they got it from there.
[14:15] All right.
[14:16] I feel like we were pretty on that.
[14:18] I think we kind of got it.
[14:19] I didn't realize that neckties were everything is cravats, essentially.
[14:24] Yeah.
[14:25] I had no idea.
[14:26] Yeah.
[14:27] That's interesting.
[14:28] There you go.
[14:29] The more you know.
[14:30] I know.
[14:33] All right, team.
[14:34] If there's anything else this week, let me know now or forever hold your peace, I think.
[14:40] Was that the term?
[14:42] Something like that.
[14:44] Something like that.
[14:46] I think the term you're looking for is smoking asshat.
[14:53] That means we got to get going.
[14:57] Cut his mic.