Throw Them Off the Scent

[00:00] Coalson, do we have time for under Google? Are we feeling it or we want to yeah, so I've got a I've got a real
[00:07] I've got a real quick one. Okay, I think it's gonna be real quick. Oh
[00:23] We do want to under Google rules. That was the play of super excited told us we had to
[00:31] We signed up for it in the end it's gonna be better and more true than Google can give you to curse to say that
[00:42] Mm-hmm
[00:44] so I was listening to a radio lab this week and
[00:49] There was this really amazing story about
[00:55] The
[00:56] Swedish
[00:57] Navy
[00:59] being concerned about Russian subs
[01:02] in the 90s and
[01:05] They got into a big political
[01:08] Battle with Russia over this the sonar reading they were this sound they were getting and they assumed it was a Russian sub and
[01:17] What it ended up being was
[01:20] schools of herrings
[01:23] farting
[01:26] And it was like this huge, you know, this is amazing discovery, but apparently hearings have little
[01:33] Little bladders that help them be buoyant and they actually expel it to go. Yeah, exactly. So
[01:40] anyway
[01:41] Great. I'll link to it. It's a really fun story
[01:45] in fact the
[01:47] The woman who's doing the story like goes and like finds some dead herrings and she's like squeezing him to see if she can
[01:52] Make him fart. It's really funny
[01:56] But
[01:57] That got me thinking because the point of the story of course and what makes radio lab
[02:02] So clever and funny is that that's a literal red herring, right? It's a it's a red herring
[02:09] of herring
[02:11] And so I wanted to know the history of
[02:16] The red herring the red herring. So this is the logical
[02:22] In
[02:24] logic
[02:25] Arguments you you throw out something that just doesn't matter at all basically to throw your to throw your
[02:33] argument off bait partner off their game or whatever, right? I I always thought of it as the
[02:40] The thing in a mystery novel where they just like throw something out there to make you think that maybe that's the killer
[02:48] But it's really not
[02:50] But yeah, it's the same idea. It's it's uh, we're gonna throw you off the scent
[02:55] it's you we're gonna just make you think that something else is the is the true thing and
[03:01] Why is that a red herring?
[03:09] Yeah, I like I remember it to me it brings back memories of like Scooby-Doo
[03:18] They're also trying to solve those mysteries and I think they actually talk about it in those episodes so they give the reason
[03:25] No, they
[03:27] Or if they did
[03:30] I don't know that I don't remember but
[03:33] Yeah, I yeah, I always sort of took it basically like that Coalson. It was pretty much what you said, but I think I took it more
[03:39] as like
[03:41] Something that was like really abnormal and like didn't seem like it should be the answer and it wasn't the answer, you know
[03:49] Right, sure, it definitely should be the answer and it's not the answer
[03:55] Right. Like I think he did it and for like no reason and then it wasn't him, you know
[04:01] you think this is literally like a
[04:04] like a scent base thing to throw somebody off the scent like if if if
[04:09] you're being chased by dogs or something you throw a
[04:14] Red herring or a piece of meat or something like that in one direction
[04:18] Or put it on the path and so they'd be distracted by that and go for that
[04:23] Oh, and then you could get away. Okay, so like you actually are distracting people with the scent of herring
[04:31] Yeah, because because you know in the in the
[04:36] Basically listening to this thing. I'm convinced that this is directly related to fish
[04:41] Right, like I don't I don't know if a is there is a red herring a type of herring
[04:49] Well, is there a purple I guess I was a yellow herring or the aren't they all silver definitely my question was like I I
[04:59] Didn't know if yeah, how many different kinds of herring are there? Well, they described them as like the
[05:06] Super
[05:08] Describe them as
[05:09] You know super silver. They look they basically just like look
[05:14] The scaly fish if you were to draw a picture of a fish
[05:18] That's what it looks like and it's silver. I mean, I would guess that there are multiple
[05:23] Varieties varieties. Okay. So why did we pick the red herring then for this phrase?
[05:32] But is that but that makes this a Swedish
[05:35] phrase then
[05:38] But the entire culture of
[05:41] The Swedish is built up around catching these fish, right? I mean that they traded with like yeah
[05:47] Good call all of Europe. Good call. All right, so it doesn't have to be a sweetie. You know what herring was
[05:53] so I was thinking
[05:55] and maybe it's maybe it's you're trying to sell a
[05:58] A fancier fish, but you can like is this the pig in the poke thing
[06:06] You'll have to expand on picking a poke is that our no you remember we did it on google about the let the cat out
[06:11] of the bag and that
[06:14] Basically what they would just put they would you're supposed to be buying a bag full of piglets
[06:19] But instead they'd put the bunch of cats in a bag. So
[06:22] Make sure you get your pig in the poke. I think is what was the make sure you proffer your piggy in the poke
[06:30] right, right
[06:32] So is this one of those situations where we're switching out fish and this maybe the scent of it is what gives it away
[06:40] Maybe like you're trying to you trying to pass it off as tuna or something like that. Yeah. Oh
[06:48] Yeah, cuz I'm trying to figure out how that
[06:51] Has any relationship to the the phrase and and yeah, that's sort of Jason that's one
[06:59] So I always related this to like
[07:02] kind of like a Sherlock Holmes
[07:05] You know like it's a
[07:07] When I said mystery novel earlier like I sort of think of these detective novels, right?
[07:12] So a red herring would be something that would be in those books
[07:16] Is that a time frame for us or do you we think this is way earlier than that?
[07:22] 1800s in England. I
[07:25] Mean, it's a thing that seems Shakespeare. Yes. It's Shakespeare. Yes. Sure. Okay. Nish Shakespeare. Yes
[07:33] Yeah, exactly to me
[07:38] So I would say around that time maybe a little bit later
[07:42] Okay, I
[07:44] Liked your idea of the scent
[07:46] the scent of trading fish
[07:50] Like in but like that didn't quite match it to the real meaning right?
[07:56] So like if if I were able to figure out that it was the wrong fish by the smell of it
[08:01] And that doesn't make it a red herring. Does it smell like tuna?
[08:04] Does red herring smell like tuna or something like that, you know, and you know, but the smell like it you're conflating two things
[08:11] like the smell doesn't have to be
[08:14] Involved the scent was the thing of trying to get dogs to run somewhere else. Yeah, right, but a separate thing could be
[08:21] You know, I'm at the market. I'm trying to
[08:24] You know, I've got fish packed on ice or something. It's like oh, this is very nice tuna
[08:30] Those are both really good ideas. You're right
[08:34] And then after time it's like, you know, don't fall for the red herring right right thing because you get it home
[08:39] And it tastes completely different. Yeah
[08:42] Right. I like paid way too much money for
[08:45] These are brilliant Jason Joey. I need your help. Do you pick pick which one you like better?
[08:51] Because I can't decide I like the
[08:57] Trying to get one over on people. Yeah, I
[09:02] Kind of like that too because that is more consistent with like that
[09:07] Like an argument or
[09:13] Yeah, but yeah
[09:14] But you know if we go to the the detective novel trying to throw somebody off the scent or get somebody off the track
[09:21] We're gonna throw out these other things. That's that initial thing that you said also would work
[09:28] What would what would go after the smell of a fish though like cats
[09:33] Like the dogs go after fish smells
[09:36] Okay, or they'd be fit dogs will go after anything that smells strongly
[09:42] Well, in fact that would actually mask this the scent of a fish would mask the scent of something else
[09:48] Right if it was really pungent
[09:53] Yeah, so you could sort of yeah, you could
[09:57] Throw somebody off your your trail or you know humans as well
[10:03] But dogs probably have better noses
[10:06] All right, I'm gonna go with I like the fish market and I'm gonna say it's Shakespeare
[10:14] All right, you're wrong, but
[10:21] Okay, at least according to it was your idea I was just picking it well, but the other ones
[10:26] Oh, really you had two brilliant ideas that I picked the wrong one. Yeah, so
[10:33] This meaning first popped up in British Fox hunting circles according to the old or to almanac
[10:39] dot-com
[10:41] Smoked and salted herrings turned bright red in the curing process and a mint a pungent fishy smell
[10:49] Although the term red herring had been around since 1420 to describe the smoked version of the fish it was first
[10:55] Used to mean a distraction in a British gentleman's magazine published in 1686
[11:01] The article touted an effective way to prolong a fox hunt
[11:05] Which was to drag a dead cat across the trail masking the fox's scent and confusing the hounds
[11:14] The author suggested using a red herring if no cats were available
[11:21] So it's a dead cat is the answer. Oh, that's one that's in a one website, but
[11:30] Yeah, so when you cook a herring it just stinks. Is that is that what we're going with and they call it a red herring
[11:40] Yeah, it sounds like it turns red and then it's very pungent pungent. Yeah
[11:46] I did look up
[11:50] Red herring and Scooby-Doo, and I did remember this there was a character named red herring and
[11:57] They when he was in it, they usually blamed it on him, but it was never him except one. Oh, that's lovely
[12:03] He did commit the crime
[12:06] Let's see the spoiler alert
[12:09] He was accused many many times and
[12:12] The only time he did commit the crime. It was the one that Fred did not accuse him got it
[12:23] It does not look like
[12:25] Shakespeare used
[12:27] The term but there's lots of examples of red herrings in Shakespeare
[12:33] So it was more so that it was a gate used to train dogs for
[12:38] Foxhans. Oh, so they they would need to smell better. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay
[12:47] But then according to a pair of articles
[12:52] In 2008
[12:55] The origin story the earliest reference was in a tract on horsemanship published in 1697
[13:05] And
[13:07] recommended it a method of training horses by dragging carcass of a cat or fox
[13:12] So that the horse would be accustomed to following the chaos of the hunting party
[13:17] So basically so that the horse didn't freak out during the fox hunt, you know, we haven't
[13:26] Guessed fox hunt often enough
[13:30] No, that's the answer for things. Yeah
[13:33] Well nicely done. I feel like Jason killed that and we're just here to observe
[13:38] I'm guessing
[13:44] Yeah, that we didn't Google in here. But uh that throw someone off the scent is similarly related to you. Oh
[13:53] Probably yeah. Yeah. Yeah some sort of hunt. Yeah for sure done and done. We don't have to do that one now
[14:01] Cool. Let's just call book it cross that one off the list. Yeah, just call that one done
[14:07] You can close and you can re-release that preview that we could just re-release boat what we did
[14:16] Just now we could re-release it twice with a new title
[14:21] We still get that sweet sweet under Google money
[14:25] You only get half as much on reruns though, I think
[14:28] Well, but you don't do any more work. Mm-hmm. So it's fine. It's worth it
[14:33] We use indication it gets us in a syndication faster. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's where the real money is. That's right
[14:44] We're just asleep and we're making money. That's what it's all about
[14:49] That's what was what cryptocurrency was for also that