Dogma

[00:00] We got an under Google Bowl.
[00:02] Colso, what do you got for us this week?
[00:10] Oh, we do under Google Bowls.
[00:12] That was the play of Super Excited.
[00:14] Told us we had to, sir.
[00:18] He said we signed up for it.
[00:21] In the end, it's going to be better and more true
[00:23] than Google can give you.
[00:26] Well, you know, actually, you mentioned that it's funny
[00:28] because my under Google Bowl came from today.
[00:31] I was hanging out with my friend Sean.
[00:33] We were walking the dog, Luke.
[00:34] I told you I was dog-sitting Luke last week.
[00:39] We started talking about how wolves
[00:43] begot all of these breeds of dogs, right?
[00:47] So humans have bred all of these styles of dogs
[00:52] out of wolves, which is amazing, right?
[00:55] And you think about the human relationship with wolves
[00:59] are sort of prehistory, right?
[01:04] And so then we thought about wild dogs.
[01:11] And we thought, where is the coyote?
[01:14] And where is the hyena come from?
[01:16] Because if we are in sort of Mesopotamia and training wolves
[01:24] and mostly Europe, right, and these dogs
[01:28] are becoming these things, how do we get to a North America
[01:33] coyote and a African hyena out of a wolf?
[01:40] And so I know it's sort of a weird question,
[01:43] but if I know that my chihuahua comes from a wolf,
[01:48] where does the coyote come from?
[01:53] So I'm not 100% sure, but I don't
[01:56] know that the coyote and the hyena or African wild dog
[02:06] are direct descendants of the wolf.
[02:09] Well, OK, so they're not canines, then?
[02:13] So is that?
[02:13] They are canids.
[02:15] They're definitely canids, but I
[02:16] don't know if they are evolutionarily.
[02:23] So we've been able to, as far as I understand,
[02:26] trace back using genetics and say
[02:28] that the domesticated dog is descended from the wolf.
[02:37] Every dog comes from a wolf.
[02:38] That's crazy, right?
[02:40] That's right.
[02:41] So similarly that, say, pit bulls and German shepherds
[02:46] and chihuahuas all come from a common ancestor,
[02:52] if you will, the wolf.
[02:56] I think my guess is that coyotes, wolves, African wild dogs,
[03:05] hyenas all come from a common ancestor as well.
[03:10] Does that make sense?
[03:11] So there's something above wolf?
[03:13] Yeah, there's definitely some.
[03:15] I mean, that's how evolution works, right?
[03:17] So there's what's just.
[03:19] Teach me.
[03:20] I hate to break it to you, but God didn't just
[03:22] design the wolf and say, here you are.
[03:24] And then humans screwed it up.
[03:30] Well, no, but that's the thing.
[03:31] All of these domestic dogs are outside of evolution, right?
[03:35] These are bred by humans.
[03:37] So are coyotes and hyenas evolution and not bred by humans?
[03:45] Or did we breed these things as well?
[03:47] Yes.
[03:47] That's my question.
[03:48] No, no, no, no.
[03:49] Did we breed a coyote?
[03:51] No.
[03:54] At least that's what my argument is.
[03:55] Did a dog have sex with a wolf and it became a coyote?
[03:59] No.
[04:00] So the coyotes and wolves, my guess
[04:03] is, have some common ancestor X number of million years ago.
[04:09] So they're all canines.
[04:11] They're all canids.
[04:12] Canids, right, right, right.
[04:14] Yeah, that's the family, yeah.
[04:17] Joey, do you have any thoughts or feelings,
[04:19] or do you feel like this is?
[04:21] Jason's our expert scientist, but do you have any thoughts?
[04:27] So if I understand what you're saying,
[04:29] you're essentially saying that on the evolutionary tree,
[04:36] coyotes and wolves would be at the same level.
[04:42] So I suppose that's one way to say it.
[04:45] Maybe that's an easy analogy to say it, right?
[04:48] So you don't want to think about evolution
[04:51] as sort of a, A begets B, begets C, or whatever, right?
[04:57] Rather, the species that we have now
[05:01] diverged from some common ancestor many, many years ago,
[05:06] right?
[05:07] So the idea that we came from apes
[05:10] is not technically correct.
[05:12] We and apes have some common ancestor
[05:15] that diverged at some point.
[05:19] And in different environments, evolutionary forces
[05:23] shaped a chimpanzee.
[05:25] And in other places, shaped a Neanderthal and then a human
[05:30] or something like that, right?
[05:32] But I just sort of meant that the wolves and the coyotes
[05:37] have a common ancestor, is that?
[05:39] Correct, yes.
[05:41] Humans would not, it seems irrational to,
[05:47] the whole point of domesticating the wolf,
[05:50] or I guess we didn't domesticate the wolf,
[05:52] but breeding from the wolf and domesticating the dog,
[05:56] is that it's domesticated, right?
[05:58] Those animals were selected for features of use to humans,
[06:06] right?
[06:07] And you wouldn't, I find it very hard
[06:11] to imagine that one of those subspecies
[06:15] would then go off and be able to thrive enough to then become
[06:22] a hyena or a coyote, which is a wild animal.
[06:25] Can you imagine a world in which like, you know, we were trying
[06:29] to just be a feral dog.
[06:30] No, exactly.
[06:31] We're trying to create a collie who like, you know,
[06:36] put sheep into a pen.
[06:40] And that dog runs off and it's like its favorite thing
[06:43] is to eat eggs and whatever, and it becomes a coyote.
[06:46] Or, you know, the same thing in Africa,
[06:48] where like, you're creating a dog in Europe,
[06:50] which is this thing and this wild feral dog runs off
[06:54] and starts a whole new thing, right?
[06:57] Like, that was my thinking.
[07:00] I understand that thinking, but I
[07:01] don't think that there's enough population power,
[07:06] critical mass, basically, to make that a whole different line.
[07:09] I think population power is an image pod,
[07:12] because that's freaking awesome.
[07:15] I don't know if that's a term, but you know what I'm saying?
[07:20] Like, I don't think that there weren't enough
[07:23] of the same style.
[07:24] I think coyotes are much more ancient than like as many
[07:29] of the dog species that we have now,
[07:31] we have bred within the last 200 years,
[07:34] which in evolutionary terms is like nothing.
[07:38] It's a nanosecond in evolutionary terms, right?
[07:42] Whereas like, I bet you can read reports of coyotes
[07:46] existing on the plains.
[07:50] No, but we-
[07:51] Well, I guess you can't read reports,
[07:52] but I bet there's fossil evidence in them.
[07:53] But we've been breeding dogs since prehistory.
[07:59] Sure.
[08:01] And I'm saying to some of those escape-
[08:03] But we haven't done, we haven't done targeted-
[08:06] Right, no, I agree with you.
[08:08] The targeted stuff is more recent.
[08:09] It's like pre-itization or whatever until like
[08:13] the late 1800s, basically in victory.
[08:17] But prehistory, we're befriending dogs,
[08:19] we're taking the qualities we want,
[08:20] or befriending wolves, taking the qualities we want
[08:23] and breeding those wolves to get to something.
[08:26] This is prehistory stuff.
[08:28] So I'm just wondering if some of you ran away
[08:30] and created a hyena, is all I'm saying.
[08:32] I'm not 100% sure.
[08:33] I think it's kind of unclear what the relationship
[08:36] between the wolf and the human was, say,
[08:42] 10,000 years ago or something like that, right?
[08:44] I thought we had dogs 10,000 years ago.
[08:47] Yeah, and so I think that that is the dogma,
[08:50] but I don't know not to make a pun,
[08:56] but I think it's not 100% clear.
[09:01] Like it might've been just mutually beneficial
[09:03] that wolves and or humans,
[09:10] where wolves were hunting,
[09:11] humans might follow and be like, okay,
[09:14] there must be game here or the flip side, right?
[09:16] Like, yeah.
[09:18] The same way that cats were.
[09:20] Well, okay, so this is a great example.
[09:22] So cats, we know that cats were really important
[09:25] in Egypt, right?
[09:28] Dogs weren't important there.
[09:30] No.
[09:31] What does that mean?
[09:33] Where does that put us?
[09:37] I mean, I think it's a prevalence thing.
[09:39] I thought it was profound at the time.
[09:43] Well, I think it's a prevalence thing.
[09:44] I don't know what the wild dog population is like in,
[09:49] you know, Egypt.
[09:50] Right, well, we are in Africa, correct?
[09:54] Yeah, but Africa is a gigantic.
[09:56] I know, but what I'm saying is that the wolves
[09:59] came from North.
[10:00] The wolves weren't in Africa.
[10:01] And like in a city.
[10:02] Like, I have no idea.
[10:03] There are no wolves in Africa, correct?
[10:05] Correct.
[10:06] So is it actually, okay, here's a question.
[10:10] Is a hyena a cat?
[10:11] Is it even a dog?
[10:13] It's not even a cat.
[10:15] I don't know.
[10:16] I think it's of the genius kingdom that I don't know.
[10:20] I just blew my own mind right now.
[10:24] Joey's so unhappy with that.
[10:26] All right, let's Google it.
[10:28] So the question is, why coyote and hyena?
[10:33] How do we Google that?
[10:39] Hyenas are not a part of the Canaan family.
[10:42] Are they part of the feline family?
[10:46] The wolf-like canids include the domestic dog,
[10:52] the gray wolf, eastern wolf, coyote, Eurasian golden jackal,
[10:57] African golden wolf, Ethiopian wolf,
[11:01] black-backed jackal.
[11:04] Oh, the jackal.
[11:04] Oh, that's always a good, I like the jackal.
[11:06] And the African wild dog.
[11:09] Yeah, so the coyote and the gray wolf
[11:13] are distant relatives.
[11:15] Oh, they are related though.
[11:16] Or they're close relatives, yeah.
[11:19] But they're not, like so one didn't come
[11:22] from the other necessarily.
[11:24] Oh, oh, oh, so.
[11:25] They have a close common instance.
[11:27] We didn't like make a dog
[11:29] and then release it in America
[11:30] and then that dog began coyote.
[11:33] Correct, yeah.
[11:35] According to this, yeah.
[11:36] I'm reading right now that they call the coyote
[11:39] the prairie wolf, that they're only connected to the western
[11:45] and Lewis and Clark were the first white people
[11:47] to ever encounter a coyote.
[11:50] Coyote is an old Aztec name
[11:52] that goes back at least a thousand years.
[11:58] I don't know.
[11:59] It's been taken into the American Southwest
[12:02] with Spanish settlers who brought the name
[12:05] to Native Americans.
[12:09] Coalson, I think this is up your alley here.
[12:11] Question on Quora is, is a hyena stronger than a coyote?
[12:15] Mm, I like this.
[12:17] And the answer is that a hyena has the bite
[12:19] that is the strongest of any land animal.
[12:23] It can easily crush bones into splinters
[12:25] and sever limbs with a single bite.
[12:28] The strongest bite of any land animal is the hyena.
[12:33] That's what this thing on the internet says.
[12:36] So it's the jaws of canines?
[12:42] I don't know where you got that from.
[12:43] So hyenas are not canids.
[12:46] Oh, they're not canids.
[12:48] Right, they're cats?
[12:51] No, they are of the, well, there's multiple genuses.
[12:56] They're actually pretty, so they're of the genus hyena.
[13:01] They're their own thing.
[13:03] We just decided we couldn't cast them.
[13:04] Some of them are, yeah.
[13:07] Playa crocuda, adrocuda, and crocuda crocuda,
[13:14] which is the spotted hyena,
[13:16] which is the one you probably know best.
[13:18] I just watched the Lion King.
[13:20] I don't know anything else.
[13:21] They seem to be very distantly related to dogs.
[13:26] Wow, okay, so they're not canines even?
[13:30] Doesn't look like it.
[13:31] All right, well, there you go.
[13:33] So humans did not create hyenas.
[13:38] Definitely not.
[13:39] And maybe coyotes, but probably not.
[13:44] Definitely not coyotes.
[13:46] All right, there you go.
[13:47] We did create that, yeah.
[13:49] Your chihuahua is not connected to a hyena genetically.
[13:58] I mean, everything's connected at some point.
[14:00] Well, sure, we were all on me biz at some point,
[14:02] but I mean.
[14:06] Yeah, that's, yeah.
[14:09] The chihuahua and the coyote are not the same thing.
[14:14] That's what I've learned.
[14:15] Correct.
[14:16] Okay, see, this is why I come to you guys,
[14:19] because I don't know this shit.
[14:23] There you go, this is cool.
[14:24] I'm excited that I learned that the hyena is not.
[14:27] Even a dog?
[14:29] It kind of, I didn't know that.
[14:30] A hyena is not a dog.
[14:32] This is the most important thing I learned today.
[14:37] Also that Nate McMillan needs a offensive coordinator.
[14:42] Those are the two most important things I learned today.
[14:44] You just learned that?
[14:48] Fair enough.
[14:49] Yeah, so canids, to give you a sense,
[14:54] so hyenas and cats are more closely related
[14:56] than hyenas and dogs, according to this random tree
[15:01] that I'm looking at, that who knows how real it is.
[15:05] All right, well, I'd like to thank you for listening
[15:07] and hanging out with us during this nonsense that...
[15:13] That was pretty good, I thought.
[15:14] I feel like we learned some stuff.
[15:15] I didn't know anything about that crap.
[15:17] A hyena is a cat, not a dog.
[15:19] I don't know what's happening.
[15:20] It's not a cat.
[15:21] I know, it's nothing.
[15:22] It's a raccoon, apparently.
[15:23] I don't know.
[15:24] Did I learn anything?
[15:26] No, you did not.
[15:29] But everyone else did, so that's good.
[15:30] A hyena is a raccoon, is all I learned.
[15:33] Okay.
[15:35] You can find us on social media.
[15:39] You can hit us up on Twitter.
[15:43] Coalson, if people start bullying us on there,
[15:45] are you gonna feel those regrets?
[15:46] No, I'm down on bullying on the internet.
[15:51] But you're up on social media.
[15:52] Oh, sure, sure, sure.
[15:54] Okay.
[15:56] I think you're up on it
[15:57] because you don't know how to use it.
[15:58] I'm all in, I'm all in on social media.
[16:01] Okay.
[16:02] We're also on Facebook.com.
[16:05] Just be nice.
[16:06] Slash The Underbeatables.
[16:07] He's never been on the internet before,
[16:08] so please be nice to him.
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[16:59] Turn out the party.
[17:01] The party.
[17:10] The party.
[17:20] Boy, is it?
[17:21] Yeah.
[17:24] How closely related is that song to a better song?
[17:30] I think it is part of it.
[17:32] They're not derived from one another.
[17:33] They do have common,
[17:35] that does have a common ancestor with music.
[17:38] No, no, it doesn't.
[17:39] Might be Gregorian chants.
[17:40] No, I don't think it does.
[17:41] I think it's, yeah, it's like the hyena's a raccoon,
[17:45] not a dog.
[17:46] I think that's what it was.
[17:47] Yeah.
[17:48] This isn't music.
[17:50] It's closer to, you know what, you're right.
[17:51] It's actually closer to a raccoon than it is to music.
[17:55] Hey, look, we're all gonna die soon.
[17:57] Just deal with it.
[17:59] What?
[18:01] That escalated quickly.
[18:07] You've been hanging out in nursing homes too.
[18:09] We're real comfortable deaf nowadays.