Math Is Hard

[00:00] So I want to move over to some under Googles we do under Googles. That was the play of super excited
[00:27] In the end it's gonna be better and more true than Google can give you
[00:32] Coalson do you any burning questions that you you need answered or sometimes
[00:38] Sometimes they were like you needed them answered pretty quickly a long time ago, and you just sat on them
[00:43] Yeah, yeah
[00:45] Like what time does my flight leave? Yeah, I mean and that's the thing
[00:49] He's like I can tell you the answer, but it might be a couple months late
[00:52] You know, I mean we didn't nail that it was a long time ago, and we we got it, right? Mm-hmm
[01:04] What's a daisy chain why I don't think I've ever heard that term and so we were in college and
[01:15] Richard Buckner has a song
[01:18] Mm-hmm called daisy chain
[01:21] Mm-hmm
[01:24] And I think back then we probably discussed what it was
[01:27] Probably and probably made up an answer that if we could only go back in time
[01:33] If we were probably real sure of it seriously, I'm sure we were very confident and very wrong
[01:39] If I know me from
[01:42] 25 years ago or 25 days ago
[01:45] I
[01:47] Joey are you familiar with this phrase Daisy chain for sure? Okay. Yeah, what's a daisy chain?
[01:55] So I
[01:56] Mean the daisy, you know just sort of even as a concept
[02:00] Or are you looking for the answer? Yeah daisy chain is the is a concept is I mean, it's just something that
[02:07] it's like usually a chain of events that
[02:11] You know our sequential, you know one thing happens and the next thing happens and the next thing happens
[02:16] and
[02:17] Yeah, Daisy chained and
[02:19] Then they're couldn't they're linked
[02:21] Yeah
[02:22] They are linked and you you get from one one place to another through a series of linked actions
[02:28] Is it is it a positive thing or a negative thing or does it have no?
[02:32] I don't think that it I don't think there's a connotation to it in my opinion. Okay
[02:39] Okay
[02:41] So I thought
[02:42] Is a daisy chain letter, is it a chain letter? Is that a thing? Is it a chain letter like
[02:50] Yeah, you know like chain letters like
[02:53] Like the ever no, I don't think it's okay. Where do you I've I've conflated daisy chain and chain letter to a daisy chain
[03:01] Letter I see no, I don't think I don't think there's anything not connected
[03:06] Yeah, so you may need to explain to a listener what a chain letter is
[03:10] Good call. So there's a thing called the United States Postal Service. Okay
[03:16] Okay, and there's the thing called a written language where you actually would write something on a piece of paper. Yeah, and
[03:24] Then you would I tell so you would write a letter about how if the next person didn't mail this to somebody they knew
[03:31] They would have bad luck or something like that and it was it was a pyramid scheme
[03:35] You're supposed to send it to ten people or you your cat died or something
[03:40] And that was a chain letter
[03:42] So you didn't respond to one and that's how you got stuck on this podcast for a decade
[03:48] And you know what I didn't respond to it I was like nothing's happening, but yeah here you are
[03:54] 20 years later. I was like, oh god
[03:57] If only I'd said that
[03:59] So for me daisy chaining things together is like connecting things that maybe weren't
[04:06] Designed to be connected, but you put together as means to an end sort of thing
[04:13] like
[04:15] Get a daisy chain devices or yeah, actually. Yeah, you're right. That is something that there are certain
[04:27] There are certain technologies that they're like a daisy chain
[04:31] the ability for you to daisy chain these things is a feature, you know where you can
[04:37] Plug in it's it's it's literally like
[04:40] You know a computer to this a monitor to another thing to another thing and they all can talk to each other
[04:47] But that sort of linkage is is called daisy chaining
[04:51] Yeah, do they have to talk to each other in like a certain order for a worker? I mean poor man's networking
[04:58] Yeah, I mean you can I mean I like so for example my monitor has a
[05:05] Bunch of extra ports on there and and I can plug in
[05:09] Thing like I can play if I had a USB stick, you know, like a flash drive I can plug it into my monitor and
[05:17] It uses like the USB-C to go back to my computer and it just shows up like a drive like in old days
[05:23] You would plug it right into the computer
[05:25] but I
[05:27] Can just plug it right into this side of my monitor, you know
[05:31] And I think that's like kind of a you know, the same ideas day I think of daisy chaining is like a type of hack
[05:37] That kind of it. I mean where it's like it's maybe not ideal, right?
[05:43] But yeah, but but you're these oh, I'm just I mean, I've definitely seen that, you know, be it be in an IT
[05:48] I've definitely seen some of that stuff where it's like
[05:52] Yeah, there definitely was like oh we we daisy chained, you know a bunch of these
[05:57] route, you know these
[06:00] Switches across the office instead of like doing a proper wiring job. They just kind of
[06:07] You know daisy chained a bunch of you know
[06:11] $20
[06:12] you know Best Buy
[06:14] Switches across the office and it's it does work, you know, but it wasn't you know something so not optimal
[06:21] But got the job a network engineer would not draw that up kind of thing
[06:26] So it does get it does solve the problem now
[06:31] So, I mean maybe maybe maybe there's a negative or somewhat negative connotation to it
[06:36] But I don't think it's inherent, you know, but I think maybe it's usage wise. Maybe yes a little bit
[06:45] So it's sort of like ad hoc or Jerry rigging something
[06:52] Yes
[06:54] Okay, I can be okay. I think maybe often is
[07:00] All right, but why daisies? Why are there flowers involved?
[07:06] so I
[07:13] was thinking about how
[07:15] You know you would make like a dandelion
[07:20] Necklace or a candy lion crown. Yeah, definitely crown
[07:25] Yeah, and
[07:27] Those aren't daisies though
[07:30] But they're general flowers, right? I mean
[07:34] What else do you I mean that that's the only thing that I can think of though
[07:37] It's just like string together the stems of flowers to like make the thing
[07:42] right, I feel like daisies have a
[07:46] bigger stem and
[07:48] So it would be harder to daisy chain them in the way that you would like a dandelion
[07:53] Yeah, but daisies are less weedy than dandelions
[08:01] Yeah, so you don't want to make a garland of
[08:05] Dandelions, I mean that's what we did when we were kids
[08:09] You're unimpressed
[08:14] Dandelion crowns because they just nice and thin easy to tie together. Yeah, but you want the flower right like daisies have all yeah
[08:26] Okay, so people were making daisy crowns
[08:30] Children were perhaps sure and then adults were like that's like electricity
[08:36] Or
[08:39] That's like a series of events that are connected vaguely that is concatenation sure I mean technically it's true
[08:46] I just don't understand how that jump gets me
[08:49] Because I feel like that's definitely where it comes from but like how does it get from that to?
[08:54] you know
[08:59] an unorthodox solution to a
[09:02] technological problem, I feel like
[09:08] in
[09:09] My guess and that's just something that that maybe I remember from reading a very long time ago was that
[09:15] You know the shape of the daisies like when you went to go pick one like often more would come out
[09:22] Like it would catch, you know kind of catch on the way out and it would just take a few more with it, you know
[09:28] Oh, so the daisies are connected like interesting via the root or near the bottom of it
[09:34] Yeah, like I take one and you pull a couple
[09:36] Yeah, and that's either something that I read that was true or I invented in my mind one of them right now
[09:43] Which yeah, it's also our best guess right now. Yeah
[09:50] That's pretty good if you made it up I'm very excited about that as an answer. Yeah
[09:55] That's what I'm going with though. So it's
[10:01] You by picking one you sort of pick
[10:04] Up several things. Yeah, like they are changed in some way together, you know, whether it's through the roots or you know
[10:11] Just through some leaves or something that catch or something like that
[10:16] Okay, and so if you wanted to pull one thing you would have to pull a lot of things with it
[10:23] I think they're gonna they're intrinsically chained to be yeah. Okay, but yeah again that doesn't
[10:32] Go with the idea that one might
[10:35] create a
[10:38] Ad hoc daisy chain to do switches across the office
[10:42] But it may suggest, you know, if you're gonna make a garland
[10:45] It may make that easier because they're all already sort of connected
[10:49] and so if you've got things that present themselves in a
[10:55] You know in a way that helps you get from A to B, right?
[11:01] Then you know, it's sort of predisposed to that application
[11:05] So that might make some sense. I
[11:09] just I don't feel like
[11:11] You know when I when I think of IT
[11:13] idioms
[11:15] They're just they're not very, you know, childlike and fun-loving for the most part. They're a bunch of you know
[11:21] What I know, right?
[11:23] Well, and and this is an exception to that role. It would say do we yeah, I mean and we're
[11:31] Is calling a daisy chain a thing like it is the crown of daisies called a daisy chain
[11:39] Probably not maybe should we aim for a time frame because maybe this predates computers all together and you know
[11:45] It's just been used in it because you can also like daisy chain ropes or something, right? Like yeah. Yeah
[11:51] Yeah, I'm think I'm the daisy chain letter
[11:54] Well, I also think about her which is a big bomb. Oh
[11:59] I also thought about it in the sense of like a
[12:04] A
[12:05] The process like a process or a chain of event just a chain of events, you know
[12:09] And this started off this daisy chain of you know
[12:16] Like the you know, the the butterfly flaps its wings and okay, it's a butterfly effect sort of thing
[12:22] Yeah, it could be you know that that sort of well
[12:24] Certainly if there's like interlinking roots then having one would increase the odds of having more right like that
[12:32] That
[12:33] Linkage maybe helps them propagate somehow. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not the flower guy
[12:45] Yeah, where is Jason? I miss that guy. Yeah, exactly
[12:48] Trying to do a science question without our sciences
[12:52] I'm the fauna guy. He's the flora guy
[12:58] Well, so you want what you want a time frame, yeah, I'm saying this is a Shakespeare
[13:07] I was gonna say it's gotta be Shakespeare, right?
[13:11] You feel like it's it's it's it's definitely very poetic for unclear reasons
[13:19] it feels like
[13:22] London ridges falling down era its kids singing songs about death. Yeah, it could be the plague
[13:30] Yeah
[13:32] Everybody holds the hands and it's the plague somehow we all fall down daisy chain. Yay
[13:42] But yeah
[13:45] Let's go with
[13:47] Shakespeare or
[13:51] 1700s British children, we gotta pick one or the other cuz I'm taking the other
[13:59] Okay, I'll take the British. Okay, I'll take Shakespeare
[14:03] For 200 Alex. So you got an idea
[14:16] 1400s
[14:17] Actually, you know what? I'm gonna put Shakespeare back on the board. I'm gonna go with like World War one
[14:24] Okay, go with World War one and
[14:30] Yeah, I don't know something
[14:33] Bellicose like a bunch of bombs together right stringing a bunch of detonators together or something well dictionary calm
[14:45] I'm sorry Miriam Webster calm
[14:48] Shows the first known use
[14:52] as a noun in
[14:55] 1841
[14:58] Mmm, and as a verb in
[15:01] 1955
[15:02] So me and Coalson nailed it together between us if you average us I think
[15:11] All right, and I had the right millennium but I
[15:15] Wasn't the right eon
[15:19] So
[15:22] But yeah, the definitions well, so the daisy chain is a string of daisies with stems linked to form a chain and
[15:29] Then so it literally is that yeah, and then okay
[15:33] and then in the computer sort of yeah, there is definitely a a
[15:41] Specific definition around
[15:43] electronics and computer peripherals and
[15:46] Networks too and I guess I sort of had mentioned both of those but they're
[15:50] Both of them sort of called a daisy chain. It's same sort of
[15:54] The topology where it's yeah, just sort of one running through another one
[15:59] Yeah, so it's not specific to IT. It is
[16:03] To connect in a sequence especially in a way that one element latches to the next an interlinked sequence of events things
[16:11] people, etc
[16:16] according to my generative AI is also a
[16:20] A type of group sex. Yeah, that popped up pretty quick for me, too
[16:28] That so actually that was the one on dictionary calm
[16:32] Coalson Coalson earmuffs here, but it's a group sexual activity in which the participants serve as active and passive partners
[16:41] to different people
[16:43] Simultaneously, I may need some
[16:46] Clarification that's just training, right? Yeah, it's just train action
[16:54] Whoo
[16:56] What's the passive part?
[16:58] Well, sometimes you're yeah a vessel you're pitching sometimes you're cashing
[17:04] Huh, I never thought about that. All right
[17:08] And also in DNA
[17:11] As Jason would tell you fourth with
[17:14] When DNA undergoing PCR amplification becomes tangled
[17:20] If you mad if I didn't remind you of that, I know you guys know that
[17:23] See, where did the term daisy chain originate? Okay, it's 1841 as its earliest written evidence seems to be pretty pervasive
[17:38] Yeah, it does the daisy chain according to the Vassar encyclopedia
[17:51] Is oh
[17:56] Wow, oh so Vassar
[18:02] college, but they have
[18:08] Either they do or did they had a daisy chain
[18:13] tradition they carry a hundred and fifty foot chain of daisies
[18:23] The most vassary thing that could ever possibly be Vassar. Yeah
[18:32] That is a long chain of daisies. Yeah
[18:40] apparently
[18:42] Daisy chain symbolized simplicity
[18:47] Really chain represents simplicity
[18:53] wouldn't that be a
[18:56] Think it's cuz it's a
[18:58] purity innocence child likes stuff
[19:01] seems like connected to
[19:04] feminine beauty and
[19:06] And even fertility I guess childhood was different back then, huh?
[19:12] Well
[19:18] so
[19:19] the British, huh
[19:21] Let's see in
[19:24] 1841 from
[19:27] Writer Edward Bulware Litton certainly sounds like a British dude. Yeah, but he was
[19:39] Born in London and I think he died in the US so oh, no, sorry. He died in Torque also in the UK
[19:49] Okay
[19:50] Or as Lord Litton and the daisy cutter
[19:55] Is a fragmentation bomb or anti-personnel bomb?
[20:00] Yes
[20:02] made famous for
[20:04] Cutting down the forest in Vietnam to the level of daisies
[20:10] Okay
[20:13] Cute name
[20:17] Daisy chain rope
[20:20] Effectively shortens your rope by a factor of six
[20:24] Wait, what?
[20:26] So basically looping your factor of six
[20:30] Yeah, so a 60 meter climbing rope is a much more manageable 10 meters long for packing
[20:37] So you do make a little knot in your rope the daisy chain
[20:44] But by a factor of six, I'm very confused by that math
[20:50] Yeah, well, I can send you a YouTube video if you'd like on how to make one
[20:55] Yeah, it'd be I'm not gonna watch it that much we knew
[21:06] Not clear to me why
[21:08] Six six ropes would be easier to pack than one
[21:11] Since you're losing you're losing length every time you tie a knot
[21:19] Right, I think that's what they're saying they're saying the opposite they're saying that somehow tie knots
[21:26] Makes it easier to back
[21:29] Yes
[21:31] Shortens your rope. I mean that shortening your rope shortens your rope
[21:40] But more short ropes is not more efficient than one long Oh math is hard depends on who you are
[21:54] Annoyment disagrees but Einstein agrees. So there's that all right team. Well
[22:01] We are probably not gonna solve the debate on whether or not math is hard today, aren't we Coalson?
[22:08] Oh, no, I mean, I I think I just agree to disagree. Okay
[22:14] He caved right away on that one
[22:20] But we are gonna get rolling here
[22:26] until next week
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[23:23] That was okay, yeah, I thought there was gonna be something later I was waiting for a surprise yeah like a
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[23:42] Alright, we're good now. We're done. Okay