Candlestick Makers

[00:00] All right, so I hope we learned a little bit about C-Slugs.
[00:03] Coalson, do you got to start, uh, what, what, what, what do you, uh,
[00:08] excellent question.
[00:13] What do you bring to the table?
[00:15] Nothing of use.
[00:17] Um, well, you file here.
[00:22] People person.
[00:23] Damn it.
[00:37] Oh, we do want to under Google rules.
[00:39] That was the play of super excited.
[00:41] Um, told us we had to, so we signed up for it.
[00:49] In the end, it's going to be better and more true than Google can give you.
[00:55] You know, one that came up the other day, I was, let's do a podcast and they
[00:58] said, let's put a pin in that.
[01:01] And I went, oh yeah, that's a phrase that we just know where to put a pin in that.
[01:06] Um, and I, my entire life I've sort of envisioned, um,
[01:16] like, like doing needle and thread.
[01:20] And then just sticking the needle into the project and calling it a day.
[01:25] Like, we're just done sewing for now.
[01:28] So you stick your needle up.
[01:30] And then I thought, I don't know if that's, that's the right image to have in my head.
[01:37] Put a pin in that, give me the history, the meaning.
[01:45] Thank you.
[01:48] Is that your mic?
[01:51] So, so the idea behind the put a pin in that is, um, let's, uh, that's a really
[01:57] good conversation we're having, or, uh, there's some topic with a good point.
[02:02] Yeah, but we need to not talk about that.
[02:04] We need to move on to the next thing we need to circle back.
[02:07] We need to circle back to that.
[02:08] So let's just put a pin in that now.
[02:11] Um, the other image I always have is put a pin in a balloon, which
[02:15] blows up the balloon.
[02:17] Um, those are the two images that I have in my head.
[02:20] Um, I don't feel like that's as useful, but yeah, when I was a kid, I always
[02:24] thought of like maybe knitting or something, and then you stick the pin
[02:27] in the ball of yarn and you're like, I'm done knitting for the day.
[02:31] We'll put a pin in that.
[02:32] We'll come back to it later.
[02:35] Yeah, that's good.
[02:37] I always envision it as a cork board.
[02:41] A cork board.
[02:42] Yeah, that's a good idea.
[02:43] We're just going to put a push pin.
[02:45] We're going to put that, we're going to, that's a note that we're going
[02:47] to put on the board.
[02:48] Okay.
[02:48] I have that, but like a paranoid, beautiful mind sort of cork board.
[02:53] Okay.
[02:54] With lots of yarn connecting things.
[02:56] Definitely.
[02:57] Definitely.
[02:58] A lot of black and white pictures.
[02:59] That's what the inside of my brand looks like.
[03:03] It's a wonderful insight to Harper's brain.
[03:07] Are you listening?
[03:08] I've always sort of thought like, uh, like sort of in this sewing area,
[03:15] sort of the same way where it was kind of like, like with the sewing needle,
[03:21] you just kind of, yeah, poke it into the project and just say, we'll,
[03:23] we'll come back, we'll come back to that later.
[03:27] There's like a pin cushion, right?
[03:29] Yeah, yeah, there's a pin cushion.
[03:31] You stick a pin in, uh, but, but the, these ideas though, make
[03:35] them very separate eras, right?
[03:38] So if, if Jason's idea of putting a, a thumbtack into a cork board would be
[03:44] what era is that turn of the century?
[03:46] When do we have cork boards and push pins?
[03:49] 1920s 1930s.
[03:55] Yeah.
[03:55] When does office life, well, the office life doesn't start
[03:57] until the fifties probably.
[03:59] Right.
[04:01] 40s.
[04:03] I mean, there were, I mean, there were definitely like people like once
[04:07] the industrial revolution started, there were probably like managers
[04:11] of factories at their offices or whatever.
[04:13] Right.
[04:15] But, but real office culture where people had day jobs that were
[04:20] like sitting at a desk post world war two, right?
[04:24] Yeah, probably.
[04:25] I would think, I would think maybe world war one ish maybe, but okay.
[04:31] And that starting to come about 20th century.
[04:34] Yeah.
[04:35] So a push pin versus a thumbtack.
[04:38] I don't know when they come up with a push pin into a cork board.
[04:42] I mean, the only reason I think that is because that's the way it makes sense
[04:46] in my brain is that that's what I would do.
[04:49] It's like, oh, that's a good idea.
[04:50] Let me put it on a post-it note.
[04:51] I'll put it over here.
[04:52] Let's stick it on the cork board.
[04:54] I don't know that that's where the phrase comes from at all.
[04:58] And I, I kind of like this idea that it comes from sewing first, right?
[05:01] Which is we're going to put a pin in that we're going to like, because
[05:05] even in sewing, I don't know much about sewing, but like, for instance, if
[05:08] you're going to like put a hem in or something like that, you like fold
[05:11] the fabric up first, pin it, and then you're like, Oh, okay.
[05:15] Then I'll come back to that later and sew that line.
[05:18] Oh, I didn't even think about that.
[05:20] That's actually really good.
[05:22] Probably specifically tailoring because the problem that I was sort
[05:25] of mentally running into is like, well, sewing was primarily something
[05:31] that women did, right?
[05:31] So, you know, how does that enter the larger lexicon, given the fact
[05:35] that, uh, you know, women weren't allowed to read or write for so long.
[05:42] Yeah.
[05:43] Um, so I was like, I'm going to like, you know, but, but I think tailoring.
[05:49] That's good.
[05:50] Yeah.
[05:50] So you basically put a pin in something that you're going to sew later.
[05:54] Right.
[05:55] That's how you tax, you tax something essentially.
[05:59] I think he nailed it.
[06:00] Yeah.
[06:00] It just holds a, you just hold that in place.
[06:03] And that's, you know, like if you, if the, if the legs were too long,
[06:07] you just, you know, fold them up, right?
[06:09] Right.
[06:10] Oh my God, this is good.
[06:11] Figure out the rest of it and come back later and finish up.
[06:13] Well, in this, actually, you know what you're making me realize
[06:17] you're making me was another idiom, the idiom within an idiom.
[06:21] The work is, uh, you've got your work cut out for you.
[06:27] True.
[06:27] That's gotta be a tailoring phrase, right?
[06:29] We're cutting out the thing and then you're pinning it and then,
[06:33] and then you're going to sew it later.
[06:37] Probably that, that, that may be, I'm wondering if that's not more
[06:42] large scale, maybe, but it's always, there's always a, uh, you
[06:47] know, an under Google with an under Google board wouldn't be,
[06:50] you know, an under Google, but I feel like I love this idea of
[06:55] we're pinning something that we're going to sell later.
[06:59] And that's where I got the word cut out for you.
[07:01] Thing.
[07:03] Yeah.
[07:04] I'm liking like Victorian England based on that.
[07:06] Right.
[07:07] Okay.
[07:08] Yeah.
[07:08] What are the tailors?
[07:10] They're the most certain into nerdy sartorial class ever.
[07:14] Weren't they?
[07:16] You've got to have a shit ton of wealth and where you can just
[07:20] create somebody that hangs out to make you fancy clothes.
[07:24] That's their whole gig.
[07:25] Yeah.
[07:26] So Vic,
[07:27] yeah, but doesn't that go back to like, I mean,
[07:31] anything ever since there's been royalty, right?
[07:34] I mean, I'm sure the Greeks have like special rubs and stuff.
[07:36] Like, you know what I mean?
[07:40] But did they have pens?
[07:43] I mean, they had stuff that held other stuff.
[07:46] Yeah, that's true.
[07:47] That's true.
[07:48] Is it the most likely like, yeah.
[07:51] Like large scale tailoring came about right.
[07:54] Victorian era or something like that.
[07:56] When you started to have a, uh, I guess I wouldn't even be
[08:01] middle class than upper, a larger upper class, right?
[08:03] And an ability that a landed gentry that was, was large
[08:08] enough to support it.
[08:09] But I mean, but you know what they're, you know, if
[08:12] there's cobblers, there's tailors, right?
[08:14] There's bakers.
[08:15] There's all these things in, in some sort of,
[08:18] there's candlestick makers.
[08:23] Summer's been reading some children.
[08:26] I feel like a tailor would exist outside of Victoria,
[08:29] England, like we're, you know, you've got to
[08:30] repair some broken, torn clothing.
[08:34] Even, even Joe Schmo that's going to the
[08:36] field needs, uh, pants.
[08:38] Yeah, that's fair.
[08:40] But I mean, how much hemming were they doing
[08:43] at that point?
[08:44] Right.
[08:45] The more I'm thinking about this, the more I'm
[08:46] thinking it's probably one of those things like
[08:49] every idiom we come across that was probably in
[08:53] the lexicon for a long time before like some
[08:56] business management class turned it into like, you
[09:00] know, fair for the masses because, I mean, I, I
[09:07] don't know, like how did that originally get
[09:09] introduced?
[09:10] Certainly through literature is going to be where
[09:12] we find it.
[09:13] Right.
[09:13] So it's going to be Chaucer or Shakespeare or, or
[09:17] newspaper marked 20 newspapers.
[09:20] Right.
[09:20] I mean, it could be newspaper or Shakespeare
[09:24] junior or something, Pliny that.
[09:27] Yeah, exactly.
[09:29] Shakespeare, the junior, the eighth, right.
[09:35] What's, what's our guess?
[09:36] I like the idea that it comes about that.
[09:40] We see it in print maybe in the mid 19th
[09:45] century or something.
[09:46] Okay.
[09:48] Mid-1800s.
[09:51] Yeah.
[09:52] Um, I, I'm now, I, I feel like Jason's guess
[09:55] is better than my guess.
[09:57] Um, I like it.
[09:58] It's cork board.
[09:59] I'm thinking, I'm thinking it comes about in 1947.
[10:06] Interesting.
[10:07] We're putting a pin on it because my entire life
[10:09] I thought it was about sewing, but I thought
[10:11] it was like yarn.
[10:12] And then you brought up the Harper, you brought
[10:14] up like the, like pinning things.
[10:15] And I was like, Oh, this goes way, way earlier
[10:18] than I thought, but I'm, I think I'm fooling
[10:20] myself.
[10:21] I think it's, I think it's about a cork
[10:23] board.
[10:24] I think Jason's right.
[10:26] Hmm.
[10:26] I mean, I think Jason's right.
[10:27] Either way.
[10:28] I think he nailed it with the tail or anything.
[10:30] So it's the nice thing is I came up with,
[10:33] Oh, you came up with both of them.
[10:34] Okay.
[10:34] You did come up with them.
[10:35] You're right.
[10:36] I'll go a little bit earlier than Jason and
[10:38] go like mid 18th century or something.
[10:43] Okay.
[10:44] Okay.
[10:46] Joey.
[10:49] I mean, I think, yeah, I think mid-1800s urban
[10:53] dictionary says, uh, they offer a world war two
[10:56] origin of putting a pin back in a grenade.
[10:58] So it doesn't explode.
[10:59] Oh, but I don't think that's what it is.
[11:03] I mean, urban dictionary is not a, uh, reliable
[11:07] space.
[11:07] I don't know.
[11:07] That's that would be pretty awesome if that's
[11:09] what it was.
[11:10] Yeah.
[11:11] No, that's actually, you'd think that three
[11:12] dudes who said it only one got out.
[11:14] So let's put a pin in that, but would you
[11:18] take a pin out of a grenade and then put it
[11:19] back in, does that stop the grenade?
[11:21] Yeah.
[11:21] I guess that does stop the grenade blowing up.
[11:24] It does.
[11:25] Okay.
[11:27] So we may have better luck with work cut out
[11:30] for you.
[11:31] Okay.
[11:32] I'm on, uh, word histories.net, supposedly a
[11:36] metaphorical illusion to the preparation of
[11:39] fabric to be worked on.
[11:41] Yeah.
[11:41] So definitely a tailoring thing.
[11:43] We're looking at, uh, the rule of reason, uh,
[11:47] containing the art of logic London 1551 for,
[11:51] for first reference, uh, containing you'll be
[11:54] happy to know is spelled C O N T E I in Y
[11:57] and G as you do as you do.
[12:02] So, okay.
[12:03] So the, the reference to tailoring did, did
[12:06] pan out on that one.
[12:08] That's looking pretty, pretty solid.
[12:11] Well done.
[12:11] Cool.
[12:12] That's awesome.
[12:15] I'm 1592 might be better, but we're talking
[12:19] like pre Shakespeare on the work cut out.
[12:22] Definitely tailoring.
[12:23] So pre Shakespeare.
[12:25] Okay.
[12:28] I'm getting the, uh, etymology of the word
[12:31] pen, which doesn't, um, help us.
[12:37] Um, it comes from old Norse penny to mean
[12:41] peg or tack.
[12:43] I'm not getting much else on the outside of
[12:46] the grenade thing.
[12:48] This is completely under good.
[12:50] Wow.
[12:50] This is, this is really bizarre that no,
[12:53] there's nothing.
[12:55] I mean, there's like nothing good.
[12:56] I suspected that it would be like an
[12:58] elusive slang thing as often as it is, but
[13:02] this is really much more elusive than
[13:04] I thought.
[13:05] Right.
[13:08] In 1859, the book nature and human nature
[13:12] by Thomas Chandler Halliburton included
[13:15] the phrase stick a pin in it, uh, in a
[13:19] somewhat figurative manner that eludes to
[13:21] keeping something set apart to refer back
[13:25] to in the future.
[13:26] Okay.
[13:26] You guys nailed that date.
[13:29] We're going to take that and move on.
[13:32] Well done.
[13:34] Yeah.
[13:35] Mid 1800s.
[13:36] Bang.
[13:38] Done.