Episode 81 · February 20, 2021
Address Was Directions
A listener asks how international mail is paid for between countries, and the hosts find the Universal Postal Union.
“I love you in April.” (14:17)
Questions
How do countries get paid when international mail crosses several postal services? (00:37)
Our guess
Originally goodwill between postal services, later contracts where each country's postage includes a fee for the receiving country's post or a private carrier.
Originally goodwill between postal services, later contracts where each country's postage includes a fee for the receiving country's post or a private carrier.
Reveal the answer
The answer
Your postage covers domestic handling, transport (often via a private carrier like FedEx or UPS), and a fee paid to the receiving country's postal service. The Universal Postal Union, founded in 1874 and based in Switzerland, sets the fees, and before that mail depended on bilateral treaties.
Your postage covers domestic handling, transport (often via a private carrier like FedEx or UPS), and a fee paid to the receiving country's postal service. The Universal Postal Union, founded in 1874 and based in Switzerland, sets the fees, and before that mail depended on bilateral treaties.
Verdict right
Transcript (auto-generated)
[00:01] Oh, we doing under Googles. That was the play of super excited told us we had to [00:12] this. We said we signed up for it. In the end, it's gonna be better and more true [00:20] than Google can give you. All right, we got an under Google bull for you this [00:27] week. All right, Jason, this actually came in from my wife. And I mean, anybody [00:37] of course is welcome to to answer this question. But I thought you might have a [00:42] little more experience in this because your family background. But so when you [00:48] send mail internationally, you give the post office money. And here's the way I [00:57] see it. You send something wherever it doesn't matter. You send something to to [01:02] China. You go in you pay our our post office, the American post office, whatever [01:09] those 30 bucks or whatever. You wrap it up, you say that there's no nothing [01:14] flammable or whatever. perishable, all that stuff. So they do some work, the USPS [01:25] does some work with that. They ship it off to China does the Chinese post [01:31] social service is going to do, let's say half the work or whatever they got and [01:35] that someone's gonna deliver to somebody's house or whatever. They're [01:39] doing, let's say half the work. I didn't give them any money. How do they get [01:42] paid? Like it's a whole worldwide system of people just doing work. And how [01:50] does everyone get the right amount of money? Because you wouldn't want to get [01:53] host in that process? Or is it just a it's just a bunch of goodwill amongst the [02:00] world postal services? I'm gonna say originally it was probably a bunch of [02:07] goodwill. And that would be for things like letters or postcards or whatever. [02:13] Like things that are of small that are not resource intensive to get to [02:21] wherever in China. And it was just like a postal service, you know, gentlemen's [02:29] agreement. If you just throw in another letter on the back, like we believe in [02:32] the philosophy that you should be able to deliver something to wherever in the [02:39] world. Right, exactly. And it'll get there. Right. Now, as the postal service took on [02:50] more sort of probably package shipping, I imagine that most of that most of the [02:55] parcel shipping I bet is like private companies. Right. Like FedEx just has a [03:01] China operation or something like that. And so they deliver it to wherever. And I [03:09] would assume that basically the the receiving country would be a subcontractor [03:18] of the shipping country's postal service. Right. So our US is so if you're [03:25] gonna ship something to France, right, our USPS charges you something that takes [03:32] into account what they're gonna have to pay the French postal service to get it [03:38] to the right place. That would be my guess. Okay. So that way, I mean, because [03:43] clearly the the person who's sending it has you don't want to pay two post [03:48] offices. It's wholly impractical. Yes. I don't know. What do you guys think? I [03:55] think some of it probably depends on the country. I mean, the USPS is a pretty [04:00] unique institution on some level, right? In its level of service and reliability. [04:12] Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's more reliable than. Yes. And better service [04:20] than than other. Yeah. I mean, other countries, I think for a long time, like [04:25] I think a lot of it was private. Right. And so I think, yeah, it probably depends [04:32] on the country. But I mean, I think you're right, Jason, I think that, you [04:36] know, we have agreements with these countries. The USPS is super good at [04:40] what they do. And they know how much is going to cost once it gets on the ground [04:44] there. And they just build that into your price structure or hand it off to [04:48] UPS or FedEx or whoever. Mm hmm. The question is, do they need permission from [04:57] Congress every time they want to like subcontract a parcel getting shipped to [05:03] Austria or something? If they want to change the price, because Austria raised [05:09] their prices or something like that. Yeah, I know. No, you're right. I was just, I [05:16] learned from Julie other day, she lived in Costa Rica and she didn't have an [05:20] address. The address was just directions from the office where something would get [05:27] received. So like her parents would send her a piece of mail and it would say [05:31] like, down the road, half a mile, hang a left. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Awesome. [05:40] So I don't know. Yeah, I guess we got a Google and also, yeah, shout out to my [05:46] mom and dad. They can write in with the answer to say about that experience. I'm [05:52] sure my dad had delivered some packages from overseas at some point. While [05:59] you're checking that out, it was reminded, Harper, what you're talking [06:03] about there, the unprecedented, fantastic service that they give. And I think [06:08] that's usually the case, but it was reminded of a story starting last year. [06:15] The investigation started last year. It was about a postal service employee, a [06:22] carrier from Virginia Beach, Virginia. And he was quote, too stressed to finish his [06:30] job. So he rented a storage unit and was just delivering his mail. Couldn't make [06:42] time and he was felt pressured to complete his route. That's not worse than [06:46] the UPS guy who was, who got busted in like a 10 year FBI sting for shipping [06:55] drugs. He was like a millionaire. It was like him and like three drivers, but [06:59] you can get anywhere. Apparently with a uniform and a UPS truck. I guess that's [07:03] true. I'm supposed to be there. I've seen a lot of these online now, you know, [07:10] there's these like ring and these other door doorbell cameras are becoming much [07:15] more popular. And you see a fair amount of these deliveries of expensive, [07:21] delicate things just being chucked onto the, onto the porch. And you got video [07:27] of it. I'm sure most people don't do that, but, but it happens. Okay, so we were [07:37] kind of right. So you pay postage to the US Postal Service, but a part of that [07:47] cost covers postal labor and infrastructure in the United States. [07:51] Another part takes care of the transportation to the foreign country, [07:57] which the Postal Service regularly contracts private carriers like FedEx or [08:05] UPS or something like that. And then there's also a fee paid to the [08:13] receiving country postal service to get it to the final destination. And there [08:19] is a universal postal union, which is based in Switzerland with 191 member [08:26] countries that sort of figures out what these fees are supposed to be typically [08:31] based on like weight and distance or whatever. Yeah, slate nailed this thing. [08:36] The UPU was founded in 1874. Yeah. Wow. And old postmarks, you could see like the postmark [08:51] for every trip of the segment, basically. Oh, wow. Oh, they stamp it every, every one. [08:56] Do the, the US post office then of course are charging fees for the international mail [09:04] coming in this direction. Exactly. Is there an imbalance on one side or the other? We [09:09] probably don't know that. That I don't know. Yeah. The UPU definitely can [09:15] penalize members for late delivery. Mm-hmm. Like a spanking? But you have to be [09:26] really bad. You, you get docked your dues if more than 86% of incoming letters [09:33] late to their destination. I like how it's 86. They voted on 85 and they're like, oh, I don't know. [09:44] Wait, wait. You said more than 86% are late? Yeah. So this is like, all right, [09:49] you need a 14% to pass this test. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. It's one hell of a, [09:55] one hell of a bell curve there. The curve. Yeah, the curve is dirty on that one. [10:00] The poster stamp was introduced in Britain in 1840. Prior to that, it was generally the receiver who [10:10] paid for shipping. Like a collect phone call? Yeah. COD. How bad do you want this letter? [10:21] Cash on delivery. But before the UPU was founded in 1874, the international mail system was little [10:33] more than a complex network of bilateral treaties. Centers had to arrange privately for every leg. [10:38] So to send a letter to a cousin of Russia, you might first have to find someone you knew in [10:42] France who could forwarded someone he knew in Germany and so forth. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's rough. [10:51] Yeah, it seems a lot easier to get mail back and forth now. [10:56] USPS is awesome, man. I'm saying. Yeah. [10:59] Shout out. So sub on the Google, so the UPU has 191 member countries. [11:05] Is that all of the countries in the world? I want to know more. [11:08] I want to know who's holding out. 218 or so. Okay. Okay. [11:15] Somebody's holding out. Or they got kicked out because they're [11:18] delivery rate. Their latest was over 86%. There's currently 195 and 193 of those are [11:26] UN members. The Holy See and Palestine are observer states. By some definitions, there are 197. [11:39] God damn it. But the United Nations recognizes 241 countries and territories. [11:46] What? The United States officially recognizes fewer than 200. [11:52] So it can be whatever you want. Yeah, but we also create new territories like Nambia. [12:06] Good old Nambia. Who's Becky, Becky Stan, you know. [12:09] And the United States. That was a good one, Joey. [12:18] Yeah. Yeah, very nice. Appreciate your shout out to Catherine. [12:22] Yeah, good work on that. Yeah, you guys pretty much nailed it. [12:25] And I'm glad we learned about the UPU. I did not know about that. [12:30] Do they just like, if you just pay your dues, can you just join? Do you know? [12:34] Well, as long as you're recognized by the United Nations, I would imagine. [12:38] Apparently, anybody can be recognized by them there. [12:42] You better get at least 86% of your letters. [12:45] You're going to start ducking your fees. [12:52] Who decides what on time is? [12:56] And like, when's the last time like, who's keeping the numbers? [12:59] Time is just a construct. [13:01] Well, that's definitely true. But also like, I've had stuff like, [13:05] just not, who do I, who do you complain to? [13:08] The UPU. [13:12] I feel like this is not a good system. [13:14] Colloptic obelicity. [13:15] What do I know? [13:19] I ordered something from Amazon. [13:22] Supposed to be here February 14th. [13:24] Latest, latest thing they said, April 10th. [13:30] I got a shipping notice that it will be here later today. [13:32] And then the next thing I said, you know what? [13:33] It'll actually be here in April. [13:35] That is slightly off. [13:37] And now we know why Catherine went to Nepal. [13:40] Because that Valentine's Day gift did not arrive on time. [13:46] Nothing to do with Valentine's Day, which makes it worse. [13:50] We're a couple days in the Goofyreda household. [13:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [13:54] Now, baby, I swear, it's coming. It's supposed to come. [13:57] Just, let me show you this notice. [14:03] I love you in April. [14:11] Who's cutting that part out? [14:14] No, no, that's the title of the show, buddy. [14:17] I love you in April. [14:20] Oh, no. [14:21] All right. [14:21] Well, it's time we get out and get going. [14:23] Don't worry. [14:24] She's not get through the first half of this. [14:28] She did start listening to... [14:30] She said she started listening to the under Googles. [14:33] Nice. [14:33] So she'll hear that quote in a couple years. [14:38] Yeah, that's right.