Northern France

[00:00] No, that's yeah pretty cool stuff pretty what pretty wild wild wanky stuff, okay, so
[00:10] Moving on finally to close out this week's episode. Let's do an under Google Bowl Coalson what?
[00:18] What can we help you with this week?
[00:20] We do under Google Bowls that was the playa super excited told us we had to
[00:37] So we said we signed up for it in the end it's gonna be better and more true than Google can give you
[00:47] So I actually gotten an argument today with my roommate
[00:52] And I was I was mentioning that I needed a toboggan
[00:58] to go out and
[01:00] shovel the snow I
[01:04] Needed a hat
[01:09] Sort of like a knit cap
[01:11] And I didn't have that on me at the time
[01:14] they had someone to produce a toboggan for me so I could go shovel the snow while I was snowing and
[01:22] She said
[01:25] What are you talking about a toboggan as a sled
[01:30] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, and I said I agree. I think both things are true
[01:35] I think a toboggan is a sled and a toboggan is a hat and
[01:40] then
[01:42] I didn't Google it
[01:47] Cool story
[01:50] so
[01:51] Why would she think a toboggan is a sled and why do I think a toboggan is a hat and why did I agree with?
[01:58] Her that they're both true when they're the same name and the same thing and I'm just I look I was really angry and I
[02:06] I went to bed mad. You're gonna have to fork over
[02:10] $150 an hour to answer that last question why you did some action
[02:17] I have a vague feeling that
[02:23] Both are true as well. I don't know why that is I've what's a toboggan to you
[02:29] I have never said toboggan. What's your what's what's your toboggan a
[02:34] A sleigh it's more a sled to me than a hat. I've never told I've never
[02:40] I'm actually surprised that you asked for a toboggan and we're asking for a hat
[02:44] What kind of what kind of sled are you talking about toboggan one with rails ton of issues here?
[02:50] I'm thinking of one with like a your your classic one with
[02:55] Two rails and then wood slats on the top and then a curved. Oh wait, actually
[03:00] On the bottom with a curve flat on the thing with the curve thing. Yeah, that's what I think of
[03:06] Yeah, I think rails. Yeah
[03:09] Not the rails not the rails. Yeah
[03:12] Harper what are you? Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I had I've never heard of a hat being referred to as a toboggan before
[03:19] That is absolutely what?
[03:20] You and I have spent so much time together and I've referred to think we spent so much time in Minnesota when we put on hats
[03:27] It's I don't even think I wore hats back then man. I'm not a milliner. All right. I don't know
[03:32] It's a knit hat with a little puffy thing on the top. Definitely don't wear hats with puffy things
[03:40] That's why I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I've never heard of it
[03:44] I'm just saying I agree that you probably never heard that phrase cuz you never wore that stupid hat, but I definitely did so in
[03:52] Canada isn't that called? That's like a toque right? That sounds very
[03:57] That's a that's a weird yeah
[04:00] Yeah, is it to I think maybe it's a toboggan
[04:07] That's strange, where do we think this this word?
[04:13] Originated this also seems like
[04:17] An Algonquin word or something. Mm-hmm. I agree. So it's so it's American Indian. That would be my guess
[04:26] Like it's me or it's and that sounds French ish or German ish to me
[04:34] Again, it's a strange
[04:38] Tabaka like, you know, like the very very German double. Oh, I could maybe but
[04:47] For me to boob on the ball gone the ball gone. No, I think it's French. I'm going with French. Mm-hmm
[04:53] I think the French they like the snow do they I
[04:58] Don't know
[05:00] Yeah, they like to ski. I like to go the Alps and ski for sure. Yeah, they're in the Alps. Oh
[05:08] No, no, no, I think it's even better than this I think they're the French and they're the Americas
[05:15] They're hanging out in the snow and they're coming up with words
[05:20] All right, the ball going the ball going
[05:24] I want to wear a hat. I want to wear a hat cuz like you think is they're real into hats, man
[05:30] Like you you know the French hats
[05:33] the shit
[05:36] Exactly. And so like at some point like you get like a really knit hat. I mean, they're like double ball
[05:42] And we're in we're in the middle of America's in the you know, and I don't know in the the Rocky Mountains
[05:49] Why did they name a hat after a sled?
[05:51] But
[05:53] No, that's what I'm saying. Like I don't think they named it after a sled
[05:56] I think the sled was named after that. Why would someone name a sled after a hat?
[06:02] Why wouldn't you name a sled ever so if your hat is about being cold and then you go like build a thing to like
[06:09] But then it's a little confusing
[06:11] Now you're just I agree eating confused the entire thing is confusing. This is I mean that sounds
[06:17] None of it makes sense. Yeah, why is it the same way? Am I wrong that they're not the same thing?
[06:22] You agreed with me earlier that there's the same thing. I have no idea. I
[06:28] Have you think it's a bargain is a slight. Oh, it's a you agree with that
[06:32] I agree with that that it's about it is also a sled. I've heard people refer to hats as toboggans
[06:38] But I don't know if it's a common term or a misappropriation
[06:42] So you're saying that I'm lying to you. No, I mean that does seem like a really high probability outcome to me. I
[06:50] Think it's a bargain as a hat and not a sled
[06:53] Although I agree that it's a sled. This is the conversation. I have my roommate. I agree that it's probably the same
[06:59] It's probably regional
[07:02] But like I think the hat came first from the French because they love the hats and
[07:08] The buggah to buggah and then and then we get to
[07:16] Sled somehow. Okay, I'm gonna go sled first
[07:25] We do this I need an era sled first American Indian
[07:30] Yeah, I think it's it's we stole it from the the American Indians. So so those are beginning in the
[07:37] Sixteen hundred seven. I mean sixteen. Yeah, that's when it landed in English, right?
[07:41] It may have been in use for ten thousand years previously, right? Cuz they're pretty literate societies for the most part, but
[07:49] So toboggan is an American Indian phrase
[07:53] That's where that's our guess. Yeah
[07:57] All right. I'm guessing French and you're going French French win
[08:02] 1800s when they're out in Canada. No, no 1818. No, no, I think I think it's I think it's no
[08:07] I think it's like Beaver trade, you know, like I think it's America. I think it's Alaska
[08:13] It's Alaska Beaver trade. So so what is that? Eighteen hundreds
[08:18] Yeah, seventeen hundreds. Okay. Sure
[08:22] Late 17 early 1800s as I'm going I'm thinking Alaska Beaver trade. They're sledding and
[08:32] Wearing hats
[08:34] chappos chappos
[08:38] toboggan noun
[08:40] long flat-bottom sled
[08:44] 1829
[08:45] from Canadian French
[08:48] tabagana
[08:49] Tabagana from out from an Algonquin language. Jesus. I said I'll such as
[08:56] Malecite
[08:57] what oh
[09:00] So, okay, so basically I'm totally right it came from like northern France and Algonquins
[09:10] So we're saying Canadian French Canadian French
[09:14] Northern France that would be Western France if anything
[09:21] As an American English colloquial for a type of long woolen cap it is recorded from 1929
[09:28] Presumably because one wore such a cap while toboggan
[09:35] Okay, so
[09:37] so
[09:39] basically, I'm so if
[09:41] I'm a French man writing a sled. I'm writing a toboggan
[09:47] but if I wear a
[09:49] chappel
[09:50] It's also a toboggan if you're in the American South is what I'm reading
[09:56] what?
[09:58] I'm this snow in the American South
[10:01] Right exactly. So that's stupid. I'm getting this very long article on Atlas Obscura. Yeah, it's actually short for toboggan cap. So
[10:13] Okay, this is how we get it confused
[10:16] So I would wear a knit cap with the ball on it
[10:21] When I doesn't necessarily have to have a ball
[10:25] Jason Jason
[10:28] Fuck you
[10:31] Bring a heat on the cap. Okay
[10:40] Because you got so salty about your toboggan cap now we got
[10:44] Look look there's a ball on the cap is all I'm saying Jason back off
[10:49] so the divergence between two forms of toboggan is relatively easy to track the use of toboggans means sled dates back to
[10:57] 1829 a French Canadian adaptation of an Algonquin word
[11:03] Because of the freezing conditions toboggan writers often wore knit hats to keep them warm
[11:07] These hats soon became known as toboggan hats
[11:10] But since at least 1929 the second word has been dropped in the American South where snow is rare the connection between
[11:18] toboggan and sled faded and the primary definition of toboggan thus became hat
[11:26] It can also be a verb
[11:29] Wow to use or coast on a toboggan or to fall rapidly as prices or one's fortune
[11:37] So you could just toboggan out of that chain
[11:42] So, okay one one question all of this feels feels very truthy to me, but I am concerned about
[11:51] what's the
[11:53] What is the French steel from the?
[11:56] Indians
[11:58] They
[12:01] What are they calling sleds or hats or like what was the thing that the French stole right? So, okay, so
[12:09] The French toboggan nay derives from Algonquin word
[12:14] probably of the mikmak
[12:17] language tepecan or
[12:21] toboggan
[12:23] It doesn't really say what those words mean
[12:25] Let me see
[12:27] But you assume it's a sled or a hat this is I'm assuming it's this is sled. Yeah, so, okay
[12:34] Okay, this article on dictionary.com says the toboggan from mikmak is equivalent to unrecorded
[12:41] Proto Algonquin we had up high
[12:44] to drag a cord
[12:46] So they may have pulled the sleds with a cord or something
[12:51] Yeah, and there's like pictures of like toboggans being pulled by sled dogs
[12:55] That's what I watched today all day
[12:57] You got kids the parents are walking their kids down the street in the sleds out there toboggan
[13:05] To buy the toboggans on their noodles wearing their toboggans on their heads
[13:11] This is why it was a question and I do I know more than I did before
[13:16] Yes, you know a lot more than you did before
[13:19] And that's why this is better
[13:23] Even than what Google can give you up